Is there any future in suckler cows ?

[Hilly]

I'll be up next month.

Pop in .

 

[Hfd Cattle]

you make your own bed, and you lie in it, but don't moan when things go wrong, because you couldn't be arsed to make a few basic changes, that 1,000's of successful farmers, have found very profitable, Your opinion on failed farmers/managers, writing books about why they failed, may be politer than mine. On that, its even worse if they get to teach in an ag college.

If I was 20 yrs younger perhaps I would change but im a believer in 'if it ain't broke don't try and fix it ' and my system works fine .

 

[bitwrx]

what does it cost per day in electric per km of electric fence?

Our pig fencer is 20J. It clicks, what, every 2 seconds. So that's 10J/s, also known as 10W. For an hour, it's .01 of a kWh (a unit of leccy on the meter), so 0.24 units per day. What does a unit cost nowadays? I don't even know, but maybe 20-30p. So maybe 5 to 7 p per day in leccy for the fencer.

The 20J fencer should be good for 200km of well maintained fence with a decent earth setup. So say you get 20km out of it, that works out at precisely..... er.... f**k all per km per day.

 

[Chae1]

The price paid for beef is not going to change as the consumer won’t pay it and will switch to eating white meat as is already happening. There for their needs to be a reduction in cost of production and this is normally done through improvements in efficiencies. If some don’t believe that they can improve their grassland efficiency what is their strategy to have a future for sucklers???

Cut numbers.

Whats yours?

The price paid for beef hasn't had any correlation to what consumers pay in past has it? When we were getting paid £4/kg did price go up in supermarkets? Has it come down recently?

 

[Bossfarmer]

Cut numbers.

Whats yours?

The price paid for beef hasn't had any correlation to what consumers pay in past has it? When we were getting paid £4/kg did price go up in supermarkets? Has it come down recently?

quite true, it needs to be up around that to be viable in the future,

a few points id make about rotational grazing
1. there is no advantage in dlwg over set stocking assuming theyre on good grass and grass managed properly
2. the advantage of more livestock per acre is only of benefit if you have the staff and sheds to handle the extra cattle
3. the financial benefit and return on time/investment is far greater for dairy cattle than sucklers
4. if like me you plough up the grass every 5 years you will be constantly installing and uninstalling the system

 

[Blaithin]

4. if like me you plough up the grass every 5 years you will be constantly installing and uninstalling the system

Under successful AMP grazing you wouldn’t need to plough up and reseed. Unless you are using them in a rotation with your crops in which case successful AMP should boost productivity of arable for a period after.

I’m not sure what there is to install and uninstall. All you’d need is a perimeter fence and all cross fencing can be completely portable. I know producers who don’t even have permanent perimeter fencing although I’m not brave enough for that.

Similar mobile set ups are available for water.

 

[Chae1]

I'd be more interested in irish farmers experience and how its actually affected there business profitability.

I know through the irish farm journal they've adopted farmers and tried to improve beef farmers profits, and rotational grazing was on of the techniques they were using.

They've done something similar with suckler cows in Aberdeenshire and I've attended a few meetings. Can't recall any mention of how rotational grazing has transformed a business. Been a few other good ideas that have improved profitability but this isn't one of them.

Rather read something in black and white than hear many successful beef and sheep farmers doing it so it must work!

 

[Treg]

A few people have mentioned creep feeding? Is it a northern word for strip grazing or something else?

 

[Blaithin]

A few people have mentioned creep feeding? Is it a northern word for strip grazing or something else?

Offering creep feed to calves is supplementing them. Usually with some form of grain or pellets. In little sheds with access for animals only under a certain height is the most common. Keeps the cows out.

 

[Chae1]

A few people have mentioned creep feeding? Is it a northern word for strip grazing or something else?

Its when the calves get hard feed in field over summer, normally go out late July. We give them a 1:1:1 mix of bruised barley, wheat dark grains and beet pulp. This is ad lib. Think it's called a creep because the calves can creep in and cows can't because of height of bar on gate.

They generally don't eat much for a start, in the autumn once grass growth slows down and quality drops they eat much more.

 

[digger64]

[QUOTE="Chae1, post: 6746023, member: 2681"its ut numbers.

Whats yours?

The price paid for beef hasn't had any correlation to what consumers pay in past has it? When we were getting paid £4/kg did price go up in supermarkets? Has it come down recently?
[/QUOTE]
So if the cows go what are the options for this land , I assume most don't keep them on land suitable for arable ?

 

[Farmer Fin]

I'd be more interested in irish farmers experience and how its actually affected there business profitability.

I know through the irish farm journal they've adopted farmers and tried to improve beef farmers profits, and rotational grazing was on of the techniques they were using.

They've done something similar with suckler cows in Aberdeenshire and I've attended a few meetings. Can't recall any mention of how rotational grazing has transformed a business. Been a few other good ideas that have improved profitability but this isn't one of them.

Rather read something in black and white than hear many successful beef and sheep farmers doing it so it must work!

https://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/FIG-TechnoGrazing-Project-Report-January-2017.pdf

I’ll try and dig out some other stuff later. Some of the figures in the Irish Journal are a bit fictitious.

 

[Hilly]

I'd be more interested in irish farmers experience and how its actually affected there business profitability.

I know through the irish farm journal they've adopted farmers and tried to improve beef farmers profits, and rotational grazing was on of the techniques they were using.

They've done something similar with suckler cows in Aberdeenshire and I've attended a few meetings. Can't recall any mention of how rotational grazing has transformed a business. Been a few other good ideas that have improved profitability but this isn't one of them.

Rather read something in black and white than hear many successful beef and sheep farmers doing it so it must work!

I’ve been on a weeks tour to learn all about it in Ireland , I was not inspired then but always happy to look again.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

quite true, it needs to be up around that to be viable in the future,

a few points id make about rotational grazing
1. there is no advantage in dlwg over set stocking assuming theyre on good grass and grass managed properly
2. the advantage of more livestock per acre is only of benefit if you have the staff and sheds to handle the extra cattle
3. the financial benefit and return on time/investment is far greater for dairy cattle than sucklers
4. if like me you plough up the grass every 5 years you will be constantly installing and uninstalling the system

1. You're focusing on individual performance again.
2. Don't put more cattle on, extend your grazing season thus reducing wintering costs.
3. You keep questioning the profitability of sucklers, why wouldn't you try something that has potential to improve profitability.
4. @Blaithin has answered.

 

[Chae1]

[QUOTE="Chae1, post: 6746023, member: 2681"its ut numbers.

Whats yours?

The price paid for beef hasn't had any correlation to what consumers pay in past has it? When we were getting paid £4/kg did price go up in supermarkets? Has it come down recently?

So if the cows go what are the options for this land , I assume most don't keep them on land suitable for arable ?
[/QUOTE]
A lot of its seasonal lets.

Options would be, somebody else rents it for cattle or the most likely one at moment would be it goes into trees.

 

[Hilly]

Could you paddock graze like a pie chart ? Water in middle save all the faf with water ? Big round water trough middle of the field ? Good no good ?

 

[Bob the beef]

Could you paddock graze like a pie chart ? Water in middle save all the faf with water ? Big round water trough middle of the field ? Good no good ?

Absolutely grass based dairy next door do that. Running 280 cows in 1 mob .Paddocks all split by single hot wire. 1 big round trough in each 10 acre field.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Could you paddock graze like a pie chart ? Water in middle save all the faf with water ? Big round water trough middle of the field ? Good no good ?

Yes. The wagon wheel is written about in Allan Savorys book.

 

[Llmmm]

Could you paddock graze like a pie chart ? Water in middle save all the faf with water ? Big round water trough middle of the field ? Good no good ?

Dont know any uk farms shaped like a pie do you.Sesn this system in nz where parlour was in middle but there was a huge amount of poaching on ground near middle of pie these were irrigated farms and they were irrigated by pivots.

 

[Chae1]

We had outdoor pigs and kept dry sows in a pie based setup. Handling pens in centre.