Is there any way we can farm in the UK without subsidies?

[Grass And Grain]

Copied from the BFU thread which is running about writing a letter to Rishi Sunak...

I was thinking about imports undermining our standards and prices. It doesn't even need imports to meet our standards. What I mean is, they don't need to be imports.

Take Ukrainian grain. Doesn't necessarily need to be coming to Blighty. Just simple fact grain corridor has been extended, and it's on the world market, has reduced world prices, and reduced our prices.

^^^^Can't say I necessarily think we should have subs, but given that previous paragraph, and fact we've got a high regulation and cost of production environment, then what conclusion can we reach other than to say we need subsidies?

(More thought needed, but that's the initial conclusion)

Is there any way we can produce competitively in Britain without subsidies when our prices are affected by outside influences from lower production environment countries?

 

[farmerm]

Of course we can, until the capital has been eroded and banks call a close....

 

[Grass And Grain]

I used to think we had one hand tied behind our backs. With loss of BPS, beginning to think they're both tied.

 

[gone up the hill]

On the above only if you either do not draw a wage and work off farm to live or use a non farming business income to prop up the farming business.

Farming will carry on no doubt about it but investment will come to a grinding halt for many farms once the BPS is gone.

 

[delilah]

Plenty doing so.

https://communitysupportedagriculture.org.uk/

https://landworkersalliance.org.uk/

 

[B'o'B]

Copied from the BFU thread which is running about writing a letter to Rishi Sunak's...

I was thinking about imports undermining our standards and prices. It doesn't even need imports to meet our standards. What I mean is, they don't need to be imports.

Take Ukrainian grain. Doesn't necessarily need to be coming to Blighty. Just simple fact grain corridor has been extended, and it's on the world market, has reduced world prices, and reduced our prices.

^^^^Can't say I necessarily think we should have subs, but given that previous paragraph, and fact we've got a high regulation and cost of production environment, then what conclusion can we reach other than to say we need subsidies?

(More thought needed, but that's the initial conclusion)

Is there any way we can produce competitively in Britain without subsidies when our prices are affected by outside influences from lower production environment countries?

I think we can, but we won’t be changing tractors and combines every few years and there won’t be any economic point in producing an exportable surplus of anything, as that will knock the price down below UK COP.
However if the Biodiversity Net Gain market and Carbon Trading market pay to much for land then there will be little room for food production to compete at all in England and probably the whole of the UK

 

[Drillman]

I’ve been trying very hard to make our business lack of sub proof. We will miss it I would think.
I’ve a neighbour who farms to claim subs.

will let u all know who survives….

 

[Nearly]

Most of us will be able to farm in some way but hangers on such as landlords, agents, dealers, agronomists and Range Rover salesmen will have to adjust their expectations even more than we will.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I’ve been trying very hard to make our business lack of sub proof. We will miss it I would think.
I’ve a neighbour who farms to claim subs.

will let u all know who survives….

Whilst this is good of you both to a certain extent to be doing what you see is right.

Governments in other countries are directly aiming at reducing UK agricultural production and taking over UK markets - our own government, civil service and stock market seems to be helping such people.

Whilst I applaud your efforts - you won't be able to compete with foreign governments with an agenda or our own government with an agenda.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I think we can, but we won’t be changing tractors and combines every few years and there won’t be any economic point in producing an exportable surplus of anything, as that will knock the price down below UK COP.
However if the Biodiversity Net Gain market and Carbon Trading market pay to much for land then there will be little room for food production to compete at all in England and probably the whole of the UK

If there's more land into non-ag uses such as CS fallow type options, solar panels, etc (which I suspect there will be), then we might not have an exportable surplus of grain, increased prices, and cash to replace the BPS.

Means more expensive feed for the livestock producers though, and if they're competing with Thai chicken, they'll be out of business, along with the grain producers.

I'm in an optimistic mood tonight aren't I!!!

 

[Drillman]

Whilst this is good of you both to a certain extent to be doing what you see is right.

Governments in other countries are directly aiming at reducing UK agricultural production and taking over UK markets - our own government, civil service and stock market seems to be helping such people.

Whilst I applaud your efforts - you won't be able to compete with foreign governments with an agenda or our own government with an agenda.

yes each to there own,

 

[wanton dwarf]

On the above only if you either do not draw a wage and work off farm to live or use a non farming business income to prop up the farming business.

Farming will carry on no doubt about it but investment will come to a grinding halt for many farms once the BPS is gone.

It will be farms unable to capitalise on Urban Conurbations demands for alternative use of ag land.

I don't personally feel comfortable with leaving these farmers out to dry in the wind of HMG policy - where is the dumb fudge NFU ? What IS that thing doing ? Peeing on our trousers ?

I think we'll see some land bought in haste, planted with "Trees" and then left to turn into scrubland - of no use to anyone.

 

[7610 super q]

Well yes, I've been doing it mostly since 2006. Selling produce for less than COP can't be tolerated. Which is why I get so cross when I see Hay selling for £15 / bale, and haylage for £20/ bale. f**k ups hurt badly. Fert cost me £800, so no profit this year due to my own stupidity
New equipment is out of the question. I know I get mocked for still using 10 series Fords, we'll see how much mocking there is once the tide goes out. £150 k for a tractor ? £80k for a sprayer ? Just seen a Pottinger tedder advertised for £33k. GPS ? Gators ? Each farm having an excavator and dump trailers ?
Plenty of opportunities to make money, farm shops, farming tourists etc, but everyone will bandwagon jump. Milk vending machines must have reached saturation point already....

Things are going to get real PDQ.

 

[bobk]

Copied from the BFU thread which is running about writing a letter to Rishi Sunak...

I was thinking about imports undermining our standards and prices. It doesn't even need imports to meet our standards. What I mean is, they don't need to be imports.

Take Ukrainian grain. Doesn't necessarily need to be coming to Blighty. Just simple fact grain corridor has been extended, and it's on the world market, has reduced world prices, and reduced our prices.

^^^^Can't say I necessarily think we should have subs, but given that previous paragraph, and fact we've got a high regulation and cost of production environment, then what conclusion can we reach other than to say we need subsidies?

(More thought needed, but that's the initial conclusion)

Is there any way we can produce competitively in Britain without subsidies when our prices are affected by outside influences from lower production environment countries?

Not legally ....

 

[Hill Ground]

you either do not draw a wage and work off farm to live or use a non farming business income to prop up the farming business.

Surely this is just you personally subsidising your operation, rather than central government?!

I commend you for being such a good citizen as to be so keen to feed the nation you are willing to do it out of your own pocket!

 

[B'o'B]

If there's more land into non-ag uses such as CS fallow type options, solar panels, etc (which I suspect there will be), then we might not have an exportable surplus of grain, increased prices, and cash to replace the BPS.

Means more expensive feed for the livestock producers though, and if they're competing with Thai chicken, they'll be out of business, along with the grain producers.

I'm in an optimistic mood tonight aren't I!!!

UK arable farmers need UK livestock farmers or consumption of grain within the UK more than halves.

 

[Huno]

Copied from the BFU thread which is running about writing a letter to Rishi Sunak...

I was thinking about imports undermining our standards and prices. It doesn't even need imports to meet our standards. What I mean is, they don't need to be imports.

Take Ukrainian grain. Doesn't necessarily need to be coming to Blighty. Just simple fact grain corridor has been extended, and it's on the world market, has reduced world prices, and reduced our prices.

^^^^Can't say I necessarily think we should have subs, but given that previous paragraph, and fact we've got a high regulation and cost of production environment, then what conclusion can we reach other than to say we need subsidies?

(More thought needed, but that's the initial conclusion)

Is there any way we can produce competitively in Britain without subsidies when our prices are affected by outside influences from lower production environment countries?

lean to spell you post title correctly might be a good start.. regardless of thread my friend??

 

[Huno]

If there's more land into non-ag uses such as CS fallow type options, solar panels, etc (which I suspect there will be), then we might not have an exportable surplus of grain, increased prices, and cash to replace the BPS.

Means more expensive feed for the livestock producers though, and if they're competing with Thai chicken, they'll be out of business, along with the grain producers.

I'm in an optimistic mood tonight aren't I!!!

yeah!! Thai Turkey is cheaper mate???

 

[B'o'B]

lean to spell you post title correctly might be a good start.. regardless of thread my friend??

All the words in the title are spelled correctly, what is your point?

 

[bobk]

lean to spell you post title correctly might be a good start.. regardless of thread my friend??

Practise what you preach .....