Is there any way we can farm in the UK without subsidies?

[TelesnaAg]

Farmers of bulk commodities rarely have to be involved in the retail side of the business.

If subs go and you want to survive, this will most likely have to change for alot.

Asia and Africa, and farming in the old days you grew your product and then sold it to the end user.

Many will need to do this to survive.

Many will gail because they do not have the skills, time, to do the above. Theres been such a disconnect from the customer for so long.

I suspect people will sell or capitulate to environmental programs and be paid to do nothing, welfare farming for growing a pasture mix.

Ant...

 

[Bury the Trash]

Theres been such a disconnect from the customer for so long.

dont think this

Charity combine run

https://www.justgiving.com/team/combinejogle?fbclid=IwAR237gwzEAG2dSDblgGlcWRcol71nKZLeppvH4R9KXOsIz6cvLsmER0P1WE Great charities, not so sure about the mode of transport though.

thefarmingforum.co.uk

sort of thing will help either theres more to be shown to the customer / public about farming than farting around in machinery like boys.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think we can, but we won’t be changing tractors and combines every few years and there won’t be any economic point in producing an exportable surplus of anything, as that will knock the price down below UK COP.
However if the Biodiversity Net Gain market and Carbon Trading market pay to much for land then there will be little room for food production to compete at all in England and probably the whole of the UK

Im viable without subsidies but to be honest my enthusiasm is waning now. Do I really want to expose myself to the cashflow vagaries?

I run a fairly tight ship but I'm not overly prepared to lose a lot on a promise

 

[SilliamWhale]

Well yes, I've been doing it mostly since 2006. Selling produce for less than COP can't be tolerated. Which is why I get so cross when I see Hay selling for £15 / bale, and haylage for £20/ bale. f**k ups hurt badly. Fert cost me £800, so no profit this year due to my own stupidity
New equipment is out of the question. I know I get mocked for still using 10 series Fords, we'll see how much mocking there is once the tide goes out. £150 k for a tractor ? £80k for a sprayer ? Just seen a Pottinger tedder advertised for £33k. GPS ? Gators ? Each farm having an excavator and dump trailers ?
Plenty of opportunities to make money, farm shops, farming tourists etc, but everyone will bandwagon jump. Milk vending machines must have reached saturation point already....

Things are going to get real PDQ.

You had your fért cheap! I bought some for 869

 

[Kiwi Pete]

You already are: using area payments etc. to subsidise business activities is personal choice, as is allowing "cost creep" into your production methods by including these payments into the farm budget.

 

[B'o'B]

Im viable without subsidies but to be honest my enthusiasm is waning now. Do I really want to expose myself to the cashflow vagaries?

I run a fairly tight ship but I'm not overly prepared to lose a lot on a promise

I quite agree, it’s very hard to see a way of loving the job when you have to do it on an absolute shoestring just to have any chance of gambling again next year, but it very much looks like that is the reality of it from now on!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Well yes, I've been doing it mostly since 2006. Selling produce for less than COP can't be tolerated. Which is why I get so cross when I see Hay selling for £15 / bale, and haylage for £20/ bale. f**k ups hurt badly. Fert cost me £800, so no profit this year due to my own stupidity
New equipment is out of the question. I know I get mocked for still using 10 series Fords, we'll see how much mocking there is once the tide goes out. £150 k for a tractor ? £80k for a sprayer ? Just seen a Pottinger tedder advertised for £33k. GPS ? Gators ? Each farm having an excavator and dump trailers ?
Plenty of opportunities to make money, farm shops, farming tourists etc, but everyone will bandwagon jump. Milk vending machines must have reached saturation point already....

Things are going to get real PDQ.

Well said

 

[Henarar]

You already are: using area payments etc. to subsidise business activities is personal choice, as is allowing "cost creep" into your production methods by including these payments into the farm budget.

Yes could have kept the SFP/BPS payments seperate and only used it for the cost of keeping the land in GAEC which is what its paid for.

 

[Henarar]

Pigs, poultry and horticulture are pretty much unsubsidised.
Intensive dairy has BPS as such a small % of turnover as it’s almost irrelevant.

It’s only really combinables and beef & sheep where subsidies count for much.

Someone farming pigs or poultry on 100 acres will get the same payment as someone farming cattle or sheep and turnover is not profit

 

[The Seeker]

I said it from the go , we need to sub to be able to make a margin of profit otherwise we are using our assets to produce cheap food and we are subsidising production, I know loads of farmers who are thrilled with the cattle price atm yet live very very meagre lives no frills no holidays just work every day. The lift in price is good yes but in this day and age it’s hardly stunning , we are just all used to pi ss poor return . I’ve been around , all I want is a decent return and a level playing field. I cannot tell you how unfair it is as an English I farmer to be loosing bps and the Scott and Welsh still receive full bps …. How is that fair

 

[Henarar]

I said it from the go , we need to sub to be able to make a margin of profit otherwise we are using our assets to produce cheap food and we are subsidising production, I know loads of farmers who are thrilled with the cattle price atm yet live very very meagre lives no frills no holidays just work every day. The lift in price is good yes but in this day and age it’s hardly stunning , we are just all used to pi ss poor return . I’ve been around , all I want is a decent return and a level playing field. I cannot tell you how unfair it is as an English I farmer to be loosing bps and the Scott and Welsh still receive full bps …. How is that fair

When you were born or when you were old enough to understand did anyone tell you that life would be fair ?
I they did then perhaps best not take heed of them again.

 

[Treg]

I'm searching my brain for answers as to how we might be able to survive without support in a high cost production environment, competing against world prices.

I can't come up with any solutions to the predicament..... other than price support.

Prices will have to rise to meet the true cost of production

 

[Grass And Grain]

Im viable without subsidies but to be honest my enthusiasm is waning now. Do I really want to expose myself to the cashflow vagaries?

I run a fairly tight ship but I'm not overly prepared to lose a lot on a promise

Even if we are viable without subsidies, remains the case that we're farming in a high regulation/cost country, competing against countries who are subsidised and/or have much cheaper production because they've a lot more ag chems available and we can't rip our hedges out.

I quite agree, it’s very hard to see a way of loving the job when you have to do it on an absolute shoestring just to have any chance of gambling again next year, but it very much looks like that is the reality of it from now on!

As @The Seeker says, England is even at a competitive disadvantage to Scotland + Wales in the near term.

@Janet Hughes Defra SFI needs to recognise this and get us out of a financial hole. It could easily do so. I believe the Ag budget is broadly same as during BPS days. If we're not competitive, we're not sustainable.

SFI really needs to offer farmers a profit similar to BPS. Current SFI has big compliance costs which erodes the payments down to a zero/miniscule profit margin.

If DEFRA want hedges to remain, environmentally nasty pesticides unavailable (but available to our competitors), then we need SFI to step up.

Oilseed rape growers can't use neonics, but we are bombarded with neonic grown imports. There should be a SFI payment to take account of this if we're not on a level playing field.

 

[No wot]

The irony of this Government ag policy s quite amazing, the sandal wearing ramblers at the top in DEFRA are the only ones excited about ELMS ect , that I think a good number of farmers will try to make the best without it , the irony is that as they do so the Government will actively undermine their efforts to stand alone sub free by shafting them with trade deals , regulation and bureaucracy, so basically Gov will tie both your hands behind your back and for good measure kick you in the boll##ks as a thank you

 

[Grass And Grain]

Prices will have to rise to meet the true cost of production

They will, but if cereals go up in price, and livestock doesn't, and livestock has to compete with Australian or USA beef, then we're still fudged, which means less livestock, which means lower cereal prices.

Only solution I can see is to get SFI rehashed.

 

[Grass And Grain]

The irony of this Government ag policy s quite amazing, the sandal wearing ramblers at the top in DEFRA are the only ones excited about ELMS ect , that I think a good number of farmers will try to make the best without it , the irony is that as they do so the Government will actively undermine their efforts to stand alone sub free by shafting them with trade deals , regulation and bureaucracy, so basically Gov will tie both your hands behind your back and for good measure kick you in the boll##ks as a thank you

It's the perfect storm of a triple whammy isn't it.

Drip drip of more environmental regulation and removal of pesticide technology in the UK, BPS gone, and opening up of Ag trade to countries which don't have our high cost regulation.

 

[TelesnaAg]

The smaller farmer may benefit as they may be able to retail easier than the large outfit.

Ant...

 

[The Seeker]

When you were born or when you were old enough to understand did anyone tell you that life would be fair ?
I they did then perhaps best not take heed of them again.

You must be in Scotland or wales

 

[Hilly]

Suns and grants etc alter the way we farm , so take them away and the way we farm will alter … its hard question to answer as things alter ……

 

[No wot]

It's the perfect storm of a triple whammy isn't it.

It most certainly is , the green brigade seem to have Governments ear but economic reality will have its way, the Government could do so much to encourage sub free farming but just seems intent on destroying many family run farm businesses