It must be good for dealers and suppliers at the moment

[Beowulf]

What we really need is a carwow for machinery.

When I buy a car I enter the spec I want on carwow, get the cheapest price, and then ring up my local dealer and tell them to match it. If they get within £1k I order it over the phone there and then. No pissing about, no back and forth, just a simple deal for all of us.

Imagine if you could do the same with a tractor, or a drill?

 

[kiwi pom]

Because we're all fed up at having the mysterious 'price' withheld from us all, and having to go through some ludicrous 'negotiation' process whereupon the final figure is revealed like some tablet of stone being brought down by Moses from Mount Sinai.

The first dealer who prices openly, honestly and competitively online will clean up.

If you walked into a tractor dealership tomorrow morning with a spec list for the model you wanted, and told them give me your best price, they'd add it up and give you a price surely?

 

[Cowabunga]

If you walked into a tractor dealership tomorrow morning with a spec list for the model you wanted, and told them give me your best price, they'd add it up and give you a price surely?

Yes, of course they would. However it could take half an hour or more to work through the spec and calculate the convoluted discount structures. Unless it was a stock tractor or one already on stock order of course, in which case it is far simpler as the net price is already calculated.

 

[kiwi pom]

Yes, of course they would. However it could take half an hour or more to work through the spec and calculate the convoluted discount structures. Unless it was a stock tractor or one already on stock order of course, in which case it is far simpler as the net price is already calculated.

So really not that hard to buy a tractor, know what you want, go to your dealer of choice and order it. The question is what happens when the price is given? Everyone seems to have different opinion on the next bit. It does seem to be a bit of a game but I'm not sure its all the dealers doing.

 

[Goweresque]

If you walked into a tractor dealership tomorrow morning with a spec list for the model you wanted, and told them give me your best price, they'd add it up and give you a price surely?

If they can do that why can't they publish those figures so everyone can see them? What have they got to hide?

Look, on a thread just earlier this evening (here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/how-good-are-sip-rakes.272182/) a machinery salesman was asked a straight question - how much does this machine go for, and the answer was a complete sidestep.

Its a rake. There's not a million options, there will be a basic model price, how hard is it to say 'This machine costs £X'? And the extras are A, B and C and cost this? Who knows how many people might have seen that price and thought 'You know what, I'm after a new rake, that seems like a good price, maybe I'll have one of those, instead of one of the makes that won't tell me what it costs until they've got my inside leg measurement'?

There's only one reason not to publish prices and thats so the dealers can try to stiff customers who don't know better what the going rate is.

Perhaps farmers should try putting POA on the grain or milk contract. Seems to work well for machinery dealers.

 

[kiwi pom]

If they can do that why can't they publish those figures so everyone can see them? What have they got to hide?

Look, on a thread just earlier this evening (here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/how-good-are-sip-rakes.272182/) a machinery salesman was asked a straight question - how much does this machine go for, and the answer was a complete sidestep.

Its a rake. There's not a million options, there will be a basic model price, how hard is it to say 'This machine costs £X'? And the extras are A, B and C and cost this? Who knows how many people might have seen that price and thought 'You know what, I'm after a new rake, that seems like a good price, maybe I'll have one of those, instead of one of the makes that won't tell me what it costs until they've got my inside leg measurement'?

There's only one reason not to publish prices and thats so the dealers can try to stiff customers who don't know better what the going rate is.

Perhaps farmers should try putting POA on the grain or milk contract. Seems to work well for machinery dealers.

I don't know why they don't do it, maybe its because the price changes all the time, just as prices in shops do. Maybe its a finance thing, maybe it stops people easily getting a price from one dealer and using it to beat the next. Perhaps farmers that buy tractors don't want it to be common knowledge what they actually pay?

There's often threads on the Machinery section with farmers asking farmers, 'how much for a *** tractor, mid range spec'?
Why don't those that have bought one put the invoice on here, then everyone could go to the dealer for one, with some bargaining power?

 

[quattro]

If they can do that why can't they publish those figures so everyone can see them? What have they got to hide?

Look, on a thread just earlier this evening (here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/how-good-are-sip-rakes.272182/) a machinery salesman was asked a straight question - how much does this machine go for, and the answer was a complete sidestep.

Its a rake. There's not a million options, there will be a basic model price, how hard is it to say 'This machine costs £X'? And the extras are A, B and C and cost this? Who knows how many people might have seen that price and thought 'You know what, I'm after a new rake, that seems like a good price, maybe I'll have one of those, instead of one of the makes that won't tell me what it costs until they've got my inside leg measurement'?

There's only one reason not to publish prices and thats so the dealers can try to stiff customers who don't know better what the going rate is.

Perhaps farmers should try putting POA on the grain or milk contract. Seems to work well for machinery dealers.

9times our 10 a poa is if you have a px they inflate the price of both machines so it looks like your getting a good price for your px

 

[Cowabunga]

If they can do that why can't they publish those figures so everyone can see them? What have they got to hide?

There's only one reason not to publish prices and thats so the dealers can try to stiff customers who don't know better what the going rate is.

Perhaps farmers should try putting POA on the grain or milk contract. Seems to work well for machinery dealers.

It is also so that the opposition cannot undercut them. The competition is so intense that some dealers will actually sell at a loss sometimes just to get one over on the competition.

Farmers would indeed do well not to publicise their income and costs to all and sundry. No other industry gives their cost of production on a plate to their customers/buyers, rivals and Mr Tom Cobbly and all.

 

[Yale]

We’ve just bought a second hand tractor from a dealer who we have never dealt with before.

I met him and his wife whilst they were packing up the stand at the Welsh Grassland Event and had a banter with me going away thinking ‘this is someone I can do a deal with’.

I kept an eye on their website and when they had something in I contacted them.

They couldn’t have been more helpful.

 

[Goweresque]

It is also so that the opposition cannot undercut them. The competition is so intense that some dealers will actually sell at a loss sometimes just to get one over on the competition.

Farmers would indeed do well not to publicise their income and costs to all and sundry. No other industry gives their cost of production on a plate to their customers/buyers, rivals and Mr Tom Cobbly and all.

Who is asking for costs of production? I don't want to know what the machine cost the dealer, I want to know what it will cost delivered to my yard. I walk into a car showroom the cars have stickers on their windscreens telling you how much they are. What other business selling items keeps the price from the customer? Do farmers say 'Right Mr grain buyer, you'd like to buy my grain? Well tell me all about your business and how much you want to spend, and what spec you want and then I'll get back to you with a price. The list price? Oh don't worry, thats just for show, I'm sure we can do a 'special deal' just for you!'?

Of course we can't, all our prices are out in the open for all the buyers to see. So should our inputs be. Anything else is pure anti-competitive behaviour, and farmers shouldn't have to put up with it.

Price competition can't be that intense either, as this thread has shown, plenty of machinery dealers can't even be bothered to respond to a sales enquiry generated from an actual trade show where you'd expect the attendees to at least have a slightly greater desire to buy than someone who walks into the showroom off the street. I myself am still waiting for a salesman to come back to me with a price for a £50k machine, it was nearly 6 months ago that he last spoke to me and said he'd let me know. Bit late as the horse has bolted and the money paid on a rivals machine, but his employer isn't obviously too worried about intense price competition.

 

[Cowabunga]

Who is asking for costs of production? I don't want to know what the machine cost the dealer, I want to know what it will cost delivered to my yard. I walk into a car showroom the cars have stickers on their windscreens telling you how much they are.

But it doesn't. I can bet you anything that the figure on the screen will not be the final figure for a straight deal. It may well be for a deal involving a part exchange. All it does is give you a ballpark figure to start squeezing. If you do insist on a net selling price, and I agree that there is a whole lot to be said for that, then the customer must accept a net auction estimated price for any part exchange, and there's a whole lot more to be said for that.
Fundamentally I agree with you, as long as we both can agree that you cannot have your cake and eat it.

What other business selling items keeps the price from the customer? Do farmers say 'Right Mr grain buyer, you'd like to buy my grain? Well tell me all about your business and how much you want to spend, and what spec you want and then I'll get back to you with a price. The list price? Oh don't worry, thats just for show, I'm sure we can do a 'special deal' just for you!'?

Of course we can't, all our prices are out in the open for all the buyers to see. So should our inputs be. Anything else is pure anti-competitive behaviour, and farmers shouldn't have to put up with it.

Price competition can't be that intense either, as this thread has shown, plenty of machinery dealers can't even be bothered to respond to a sales enquiry generated from an actual trade show where you'd expect the attendees to at least have a slightly greater desire to buy than someone who walks into the showroom off the street. I myself am still waiting for a salesman to come back to me with a price for a £50k machine, it was nearly 6 months ago that he last spoke to me and said he'd let me know. Bit late as the horse has bolted and the money paid on a rivals machine, but his employer isn't obviously too worried about intense price competition.

Nobody does keep the price from the customer. Both sides need to agree on a price and the customer just doesn't give the dealer a blank cheque and say "write any figure you like on it".
Good luck getting stuff net priced like in a supermarket. It has been tried before and failed [Norton trailers]. It can be done, as I said, as long as a net auction price less transport cost is given for part exchanges. It usually spells the death knell for a dealer though because part of what it does really is to give the opposition a target to kill him with. If it was a formula that worked for all concerned, nobody would be doing anything else.

 

[thesilentone]

One day a machinery/tractor dealership is going to publish an actual price list of all their new kit, with all the options priced up too, at competitive 'take them or leave them' prices, and clean up. So you can go on their website, order a new machine, with extra options X,Y and Z, pay for it, and have it delivered without ever having to see a person, making pretty much the entire sales force redundant.

I really don't know why ag machinery dealerships have salesmen. They're just brochure delivery people really. Farming is such that the customer knows when he wants a new machine, no salesman is going to sell a farmer a new tractor if he doesn't need one. So the customer approaches the dealership when he wants something, not the other way around. In this day and age of the internet making all the information freely available to see 24/7 on any given machine, and videos of them operating also everywhere, what exactly are machinery salesmen for?

Get rid of them, put all the stuff on the web at competitive prices, and say to customers 'If you want one of our machines, buy it online'.

In theory, why not, in reality who deals with the trade-in ?

MF had a very clever way of selling tractors many years ago, the salesmen were taught to ' buy the second-hand ' and the new sale was guaranteed. So, Mr farmer would have a MF guy turn up, inform him he had a buyer for his tractor and for this reason he could do a great deal. While tractors were in short supply, it worked a treat.

 

[Poncherello1976]

Local JCB dealer has 3 new/nearly new telehandlers on their website all POA. I enquired twice yesterday, after the second time I had an email back saying he will ring me in the morning. No phonecall yet! He did say that one might be sold on his email. If he is telling me that he could have put the price on for the other 2, it would have been just as quick. Now I have been half hanging round for a phonecall!! These are not machines built to a specific order, they are sat in their yard, so the must know what they want to sell them for. I only want a ballpark figure anyway, not a final deal figure.

 

[Scribus]

One day a machinery/tractor dealership is going to publish an actual price list of all their new kit, with all the options priced up too, at competitive 'take them or leave them' prices, and clean up. So you can go on their website, order a new machine, with extra options X,Y and Z, pay for it, and have it delivered without ever having to see a person, making pretty much the entire sales force redundant.

I really don't know why ag machinery dealerships have salesmen. They're just brochure delivery people really. Farming is such that the customer knows when he wants a new machine, no salesman is going to sell a farmer a new tractor if he doesn't need one. So the customer approaches the dealership when he wants something, not the other way around. In this day and age of the internet making all the information freely available to see 24/7 on any given machine, and videos of them operating also everywhere, what exactly are machinery salesmen for?

Get rid of them, put all the stuff on the web at competitive prices, and say to customers 'If you want one of our machines, buy it online'.

If you move more towards the budget end of the market, where tractors are being sold on price as the main feature then quite often the figure is in the windscreen. Over here Armatrac and Tumosan (the latter not available in the UK I believe) have a list price that is proudly displayed. Both are imported by the same guy though.

 

[Hilly]

It is also so that the opposition cannot undercut them. The competition is so intense that some dealers will actually sell at a loss sometimes just to get one over on the competition.

Farmers would indeed do well not to publicise their income and costs to all and sundry. No other industry gives their cost of production on a plate to their customers/buyers, rivals and Mr Tom Cobbly and all.

Tell that too the lamb producers handing accounts over too super markets !

 

[Yale]

Tell that too the lamb producers handing accounts over too super markets !

Well those lamb producers are brain dead!