Ivermectin , covid cure

[Cowabunga]

would receiving covid 19 virus in a dead form be safe and would you get immunity to live covid 19

You mean like being vaccinated? No vaccine guarantees 100% immunity and some, like the flu vaccine, need to be updated and boosted annually to keep up with variants of the virus. Solutions that dictate regular repeat doses are very profitable indeed for patent holders that manufacture and distribute a widely used product. Make of that what you will, but a cure has only a one-off profit opportunity.

 

[ollie989898]

would receiving covid 19 virus in a dead form be safe and would you get immunity to live covid 19

I've no idea. The vaccines I have knowledge off either use a live adenovirus or are mRNA based so can't infect you will actual covid as they contain no covid.

 

[smallholder99]

You mean like being vaccinated? No vaccine guarantees 100% immunity and some, like the flu vaccine, need to be updated and boosted annually to keep up with variants of the virus. Solutions that dictate regular repeat doses are very profitable indeed for patent holders that manufacture and distribute a widely used product. Make of that what you will, but a cure has only a one-off profit opportunity.

no i dont mean like experimental vaccines which have caused much harm recently, if a dead form of the virus was harmless ,it would be much safer than the vaccine though big pharma would have to find a way to profit from it 1st

 

[ollie989898]

Ivermectin is licensed for human use in the UK.

Only it isn't really used because alternatives to it exist and folk in the UK don't really get infected with some of the nastier parasites one may encounter abroad.

You keep banging on about how widely used ivermectin is in humans. This makes no difference. It is widely sold over the counter and without prescription in many countries internationally where it is used to combat some particularly nasty parasitic diseases. What matters is how effective the drug is for it's intended use. There are limits to how much money countries have available for healthcare. They can't afford to go dosing up entire populations with ivermectin on the off chance it works. Doctors and public health officials are far keener to prescribe measures that are going to definitely work.

You keep going about your great meta-analyses and the youtube dude. If this medication was as potent and effective as you seem to think it is then believe me, it would have demonstrated it very very clearly in clinical trials. Multiple studies are showing meh results and the ones that do show some utility are either so limited or borked in methodology they are an irrelevance.

Merck have come out and said they had limited confidence in their own product when it came to it's utility for combatting viruses. They will have researched this long ago back when the molecule was developed anyway. Multiple pharmaceutical drugs have shown the ability to stop viral replication in vitro. It's not magic- it's a well established fact and this is where all your excitement stems from- an Australian trial in lab where high concentrations of a drug stop viral replication, last time I checked they believed it was because the drug stopped the viral particles entering the cells to begin with. It was announced in a low-key academic paper which not many people took notice of.

You keep harping on about this drug and how safe and cheap it is, well guess what, the AZ vaccine is cheaper than dirt and provides months if not years of genuine immunity, all for less the £2 a dose.

The way you are carrying on it's like there is some huge conspiracy regarding ivermectin and that SARS-CoV2 was totally unknown to science, will probably mutate like the Spanish flu etc etc etc. It's not. Coronaviruses are endemic to the animal kingdom and have been known about for years and some are known to infect humans. It's not even the virus that is actually harming people but their own immune system which is causing excessive inflammation and tissue damage at a level that is very very difficult to alleviate medically- a (thankfully small) number of people die from influenza by a very similar mechanism annually.

EVEN IF Merck and big pharma had some massive conspiracy and were hushing up the entire world's academics and healthcare professionals in the name of profit because their next wonder drug was being launched soon- the reach of these companies is not entirely global. Certainly in places like India, Russia, China and the like US or European corporations have very limited reach and power in political or commercial terms and many of them are ignored constantly whilst their IP is stolen routinely by domestic companies with better political connections. Such a massive conspiracy would be near impossible to propagate beyond the Western world as they would be ignored by the authorities there and a counter agenda would be broadcast simply for the propaganda value. A good chance at sticking one into the West. So far no one is suggesting this is the case. Chinese researchers find covid cure using 50 year old drug would be one heck of a headline I'm sure.

If you want a promising antiparasitic drug for covid19, try researching niclosamide.

 

[ollie989898]

would receiving covid 19 virus in a dead form be safe and would you get immunity to live covid 19

Would it be safe to inject into someone? Probably. Would it work? No idea. I doubt it. If it was that simple then companies would have created vaccines using this method. They don't seem to be doing this and they don't do it for the flu vaccine either.

Viruses are generally unstable and don't persist for long outside of bodies. Culturing them in a laboratory is difficult as they aren't very robust and can even be killed* by UV light and other environmental effects. Some viruses do not even spread particularly well between individuals either- i.e. they do not show much infectivity.

In reality coronaviruses are well understood and known to researchers as they are very very common in animals. At least 7 kinds are known to infect humans, including this one we are calling covid-19. 4 kinds are known to cause mild symptoms which could easily be dismissed as those of colds/flu so it is possible you have already 'met' one or more coronaviruses in your lifetime and not even realise it.



* technically viruses are not alive to begin with mind.

 

[Cowabunga]

Only it isn't really used because alternatives to it exist and folk in the UK don't really get infected with some of the nastier parasites one may encounter abroad.

It is licensed for use in the UK. Full stop.

Didn’t read the rest of the essay. Better things to do than read the ramblings of a trainee nurse.

 

[farmerm]

Ivermectin is licensed for human use in the UK.

As in internal med not a topical cream?

 

[farmerm]

Only it isn't really used because alternatives to it exist and folk in the UK don't really get infected with some of the nastier parasites one may encounter abroad.

You keep banging on about how widely used ivermectin is in humans. This makes no difference. It is widely sold over the counter and without prescription in many countries internationally where it is used to combat some particularly nasty parasitic diseases. What matters is how effective the drug is for it's intended use. There are limits to how much money countries have available for healthcare. They can't afford to go dosing up entire populations with ivermectin on the off chance it works. Doctors and public health officials are far keener to prescribe measures that are going to definitely work.

You keep going about your great meta-analyses and the youtube dude. If this medication was as potent and effective as you seem to think it is then believe me, it would have demonstrated it very very clearly in clinical trials. Multiple studies are showing meh results and the ones that do show some utility are either so limited or borked in methodology they are an irrelevance.

Merck have come out and said they had limited confidence in their own product when it came to it's utility for combatting viruses. They will have researched this long ago back when the molecule was developed anyway. Multiple pharmaceutical drugs have shown the ability to stop viral replication in vitro. It's not magic- it's a well established fact and this is where all your excitement stems from- an Australian trial in lab where high concentrations of a drug stop viral replication, last time I checked they believed it was because the drug stopped the viral particles entering the cells to begin with. It was announced in a low-key academic paper which not many people took notice of.

You keep harping on about this drug and how safe and cheap it is, well guess what, the AZ vaccine is cheaper than dirt and provides months if not years of genuine immunity, all for less the £2 a dose.

The way you are carrying on it's like there is some huge conspiracy regarding ivermectin and that SARS-CoV2 was totally unknown to science, will probably mutate like the Spanish flu etc etc etc. It's not. Coronaviruses are endemic to the animal kingdom and have been known about for years and some are known to infect humans. It's not even the virus that is actually harming people but their own immune system which is causing excessive inflammation and tissue damage at a level that is very very difficult to alleviate medically- a (thankfully small) number of people die from influenza by a very similar mechanism annually.

EVEN IF Merck and big pharma had some massive conspiracy and were hushing up the entire world's academics and healthcare professionals in the name of profit because their next wonder drug was being launched soon- the reach of these companies is not entirely global. Certainly in places like India, Russia, China and the like US or European corporations have very limited reach and power in political or commercial terms and many of them are ignored constantly whilst their IP is stolen routinely by domestic companies with better political connections. Such a massive conspiracy would be near impossible to propagate beyond the Western world as they would be ignored by the authorities there and a counter agenda would be broadcast simply for the propaganda value. A good chance at sticking one into the West. So far no one is suggesting this is the case. Chinese researchers find covid cure using 50 year old drug would be one heck of a headline I'm sure.

If you want a promising antiparasitic drug for covid19, try researching niclosamide.

. and

 

[Highland Mule]

Didn’t read the rest of the essay. Better things to do than read the ramblings of a trainee nurse.

What’s your scientific and medical training?

 

[Cowabunga]

What’s your scientific and medical training?

None but neither has he and he blatantly admits not watching or reading any research on this subject.

 

[Highland Mule]

None but neither has he and he blatantly admits not watching or reading any research on this subject.

“Research” does not come in the form of YouTube videos. And Olly is clearly far more medically and scientifically literate than you are.

He doesn’t “admit to not watching or reading any research on this subject” either. He admits to not watching the pseudo-scientific pretend research you post, and if you can’t work out why not, perhaps you need to have a look at some proper journals.

 

[Cowabunga]

As in internal med not a topical cream?

No, but is commonly available as Stromectol on-line which is admittedly not licenced.
Which is a complete red herring, because it certainly is licenced for human use over great vast areas worldwide and over 4 billion, not million doses have been officially prescribed worldwide whether you like it or not, with an exemplary safety record which nobody disputes. It can also be legitimately prescribed off-license.

 

[Cowabunga]

“Research” does not come in the form of YouTube videos. And Olly is clearly far more medically and scientifically literate than you are.

He doesn’t “admit to not watching or reading any research on this subject” either. He admits to not watching the pseudo-scientific pretend research you post, and if you can’t work out why not, perhaps you need to have a look at some proper journals.

Research covers every aspect of knowledge sources and I have also offered many links to documentary evidence that he and probably you also blatantly avoid reading or watching. Therefore your and his knowledge and research is severely limited and blinkered.
Olly professes to be an expert on everything from agricultural machinery to weedkillers to probably brain surgery. I am only impressed by actual knowledge and accurate interpretation and presentation of knowledge.

For instance, if the evidence eventually says that Ivermectin does not work or works less well than some people think currently, it is no skin off my nose. Overwhelming evidence is everything. However Olly will not even acknowledge or investigate the possibility that it even might work. He will not entertain the possibility and will not read or look at anyone else's contrary view. That is not science. That is plain ignorance and completely contrary to good science, which is about turning over every stone in the quest for answers. The antithesis of science.

 

[ollie989898]

COVID-19: Ivermectin efficacy in treating COVID-19: FOI release

Information request and response under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002

www.gov.scot

Someone in the above has written to the Scottish government under the freedom of information act and asked them about ivermectin. Their response is in the link. As I understood it, (and as I may have written extensively about before here, I can't remember) ivermectin is not licensed for use in the UK, except as a cream for some skin complaint I'm not at all familiar with.

As I have stated before here, probably more than once, there are a handful of other medications used in the UK for dealing with parasites and ivermectin doesn't appear to feature amongst them though I am only going by what the BNF says and the content of the Somerset formulary. Other trusts/regions in the UK may differ though.

A doctor or other prescriber (many different professionals are allowed to prescribe these days if they have been so trained) is perfectly entitled to prescribe an unlicensed medication for a particular use, to do so they must adhere to certain guidelines, including being convinced that there is enough medical evidence to support it's use.

I note from the BNF a list of potential side effects from ivermectin as long as your arm but this is common with most drugs.

 

[Cowabunga]

Here is some information about the large scale new Oxford University PRINCIPLE trial of home treatment with Ivermectin now being conducted in the UK.

 

[marco]

Here is some information about the large scale new Oxford University PRINCIPLE trial of home treatment with Ivermectin now being conducted in the UK.

Duck, can you forward on Ollie's contact details to Dr John Campbell and those at Oxford university stupid enough to do this trial.

 

[Highland Mule]

Duck, can you forward on Ollie's contact details to Dr John Campbell and those at Oxford university stupid enough to do this trial.

Worth pointing out that John Campbell isn’t a medical doctor but “only” a qualified nurse with a PhD, just in case anyone gets confused by his title. He’s obviously far better qualified than I am on medical matters, but much less so than all of our GPs.

 

[ollie989898]

Worth pointing out that John Campbell isn’t a medical doctor but “only” a qualified nurse with a PhD, just in case anyone gets confused by his title. He’s obviously far better qualified than I am on medical matters, but much less so than all of our GPs.

I don't know anything about the man or any other youtube channel. I don't listen to or watch any kind of health or medical related content on youtube any more than I listen to Russell Brand on there. As I have consistently said, of all the medical research news I peruse through on a near daily basis, I am yet to see anything substantial that demonstrates the efficacy of ivermectin when it comes to treating or preventing covid-19. Given how widespread the drug is in terms of availability and use in many parts of the world, and how one province of Brazil actually gave out vast quantities of the drug to it's citizens, you would have thought real-world evidence would have emerged regarding it's utility by now. This does not seem to have emerged yet given the numbers we have seen in Brazil, India and the like. More research is clearly needed.

I note from google also that the cases/deaths numbers for the UK, France, Germany, Spain and the like are all quite similar. Interestingly Colombia is one of the other countries which has a similar number of cases to these countries and it too has a near identical number of deaths. I never did believe the common belief that the UK couldn't handle the public health angle of the disease and it has proved that the UK fared the same as anyone else.

 

[Cowabunga]

Worth pointing out that John Campbell isn’t a medical doctor but “only” a qualified nurse with a PhD, just in case anyone gets confused by his title. He’s obviously far better qualified than I am on medical matters, but much less so than all of our GPs.

Actually his experience as an official and general educator makes him very qualified indeed to comment on medical matters and he appears to be more pragmatic, honest and in possession of more common sense in his little finger than many qualified doctors and certainly some of the blinkered commentators here who yet again openly admit to only an extremely narrow knowledge base as posted directly above this one. Dr Campbell researches and follows the facts and broadcasts those facts, whichever way they develop, without fear or prejudice.

 

[ollie989898]

Actually his experience as an official and general educator makes him very qualified indeed to comment on medical matters and he appears to be more pragmatic, honest and in possession of more common sense in his little finger than many qualified doctors and certainly some of the blinkered commentators here who yet again openly admit to only an extremely narrow knowledge base as posted directly above this one. Dr Campbell researches and follows the facts and broadcasts those facts, whichever way they develop, without fear or prejudice.

I don't know anything about the man, as I've said before, I prefer to actually read peer reviewed trials which have been published in academic circles and scrutinised by people who have knowledge of the field in question. I'm sure your youtube commentator is a very nice man but I have no intention of watching his endless videos- I'm not looking for entertainment of that kind.

Again, as I have said previously, I receive numerous email alerts to medical journals near daily. If something noteworthy is announced in the field of medicine I generally know about it within 24 hours because I read my emails over breakfast each day or one of my contacts (some of whom actually work in medical research) have alerted me to it by other means.