JCB TM220 (Deutz engine ) starting problem.

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

I would be grateful for any help with diagnosing this problem.
The engine starts fine then it stops, or runs at tickover, I dab the throttle and it stops.
Then on the second attempt it might struggle to get going as though it was not running on all 4 cylinders ie a bit rough, or it might start easily. Then it behaves itself for the rest of the day and is a great starter. The fuel tank is full.
Any mechanic will only get one shot at diagnosis every day! Could get expensive.
Tomorrow we are replacing the one or two fuel filters (they can’t tell us from just the serial number but some have a washable gauze not a second filter).
Given its low level use, dealer service history and our fuel storage tank I am not expecting the filters to be the cause of the problem.
I wondered if other users have had this issue and found a solution? Thanks.

 

[lexion780tt]

depends on what age it is and what deutz engine is in it? The normal culprits on the deutz is there is a chech valve that stops fuel draining from end of the rail if it leaks will let fuel drain back over night or on some there is a filter built into the ligt pump that can give same problem would need a pic of engine to be sure

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

Thanks for that.
Here is a Pic of the plate which might help or better pics tomorrow.
Here is the rear of engine, fuel is the black one.
Hope that helps.

 

[lexion780tt]

On first pick to right of hand primer lever undo the round bit with torque screw in centre prise it out there is a gause in there that normally blocks up

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

Thanks for your help.
I think I follow this and attached is a pic of the target screw to access the filter. Have I got it right?

 

[lexion780tt]

That's the right bit plastic bit has a filter on back of it

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

Thanks. Our mechanic’s skills are not great but it looks easy enough. I will do this before replacing the other filters.

 

[Zetor]

A friend of mine had this trouble with the same machine, they had all the fuel system to bits & it turned out to be the stop solenoid.

 

[Flat 10]

Put a one way valve in the fuel line? Cheap and easy.

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
The first sediment bowl filter was very dirty, and it’s glass was so black we thought it was a Matt black finish! It gets a service every year and we have never been billed for this filter.
The second filter is the spin on filter and it had the dirt appropriate for a year’s use.
The third filter was the little round one spotted by Lexion 780tt. This too was very dirty.
We got it started ok. Thus so far so good and tomorrow we find out whether this has been enough.
Plan is to fit the non return valve on the low pressure side if needed.
Thanks again.

 

[Timbo]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
The first sediment bowl filter was very dirty, and it’s glass was so black we thought it was a Matt black finish! It gets a service every year and we have never been billed for this filter.
The second filter is the spin on filter and it had the dirt appropriate for a year’s use.
The third filter was the little round one spotted by Lexion 780tt. This too was very dirty.
We got it started ok. Thus so far so good and tomorrow we find out whether this has been enough.
Plan is to fit the non return valve on the low pressure side if needed.
Thanks again.

Seems like you ought to think about 6 month services and a change of mechanic!

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
The first sediment bowl filter was very dirty, and it’s glass was so black we thought it was a Matt black finish! It gets a service every year and we have never been billed for this filter.
The second filter is the spin on filter and it had the dirt appropriate for a year’s use.
The third filter was the little round one spotted by Lexion 780tt. This too was very dirty.
We got it started ok. Thus so far so good and tomorrow we find out whether this has been enough.
Plan is to fit the non return valve on the low pressure side if needed.
Thanks again.

If it‘s still playing up then pump the hand primer first to see if it starts better. If it does then fuel is definitely running back. Rubber hoses can become porous but only let air in and not leak fuel. Them primers can also do similar. As a mechanic my approach for a call out would be new rubber suction hose back to tank, new copper washers on all banjos on the suction side and check the banjo bolts for dirt and fit new filters. Sounds drastic but if problem can be solved in one or max two visits then It’s better.

 

[Timbo]

...be new rubber suction hose back to tank, new copper washers on all banjos on the suction side and check the banjo bolts for dirt and fit new filters.

Sounds drastic but if problem can be solved in one or max two visits then It’s better.

Not drastic at all.

Should be automatic for suspected run back / aeration symptoms

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

Good point on the fuel pipes: our JD tractor had them replaced as a preventative measure. I think they said the changed spec of diesel some years ago was the cause.
Anyways, the big news here today is a full sediment bowl of diesel and perfect starting.
The message is plain: if a machine has 3 fuel filters then all 3 need to be cleaned or renewed!!!
Thanks for all the help as ever.

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

The fix above was great and then after lots of cold starts with heat in the cold weather it just wasn’t 100% any more with heat free starting.
We followed the great suggestions above with new fuel lines and a one way valve. The fuel lines did seem damp in places but no actual fuel dripping out. Fingers crossed it’s fixed now.

 

[leone75]

In my opinion one way fuel valves are a mixed blessing usually can block up and are another potential source of drawing air
These wee engines have hydraulic advance lifters on the fuel pumps and this is thermostatically controlled and can cause poor starting

 

[ACEngineering]

In my opinion one way fuel valves are a mixed blessing usually can block up and are another potential source of drawing air
These wee engines have hydraulic advance lifters on the fuel pumps and this is thermostatically controlled and can cause poor starting

i just see these one way inline valves a cover up for the actual problem, there not needed unless there's a fault with something else

 

[Flatlander]

Any chance the injectors are diesel cooled. Lots of CAT engines on my farm and all at some point will need injector o rings. C 15 with fuel pouring out of the radiator expansion tank last fall. 220$ of o rings and it holds prime and back good as new. Check for diesel in the sump oil. A small amount will be hard to tell but an oil test will tell. Could be an injector not closing completely.