Judge's seminar

[Dealer]

Had a day with a few forum members today at Hereford

Easy this judging game

We judged the plots individually then walked them with the coaching judges after

A cpl of surprises especially around firmness and seed bed

@MrNoo those disputed scores for plot 2 got him over the line as I said they would

One plot was ploughed by a prominent vocal forum member, if you talk the talk then you got to walk the walk .

 

[MrNoo]

Yes an excellent day, I had him 1st on countback 117pts each, oh for a Herefordshire postcode..........!!!

 

[Dealer]

Yes an excellent day, I had him 1st on countback 117pts each, oh for a Herefordshire postcode..........!!!
View attachment 767634

Told you just put HR on your entry form worth 15 more points

 

[Scu6499]

Don’t dis the ploughmen a lot easier with 2 judges rather than 30 little wannabe fabl inspectors with clip boards

 

[MrNoo]

Don’t dis the ploughmen a lot easier with 2 judges rather than 30 little wannabe fabl inspectors with clip boards

I dont think anyone was "dis" ing any of the ploughmen, it was a very informative and interesting day, very relaxed and great fun. Plenty of judges present, not just ploughmen. I would recommend it to anyone who does a spot of match ploughing.
I actually found it quite hard work (and we only had 8 plots!) so do have a new found respect for judges, how they keep their head around 20-30 plots at a time I have no idea!

 

[Scu6499]

Not very relaxed sat in the seat when u knew u were there to keep the other reversible company

 

[Dealer]

Nobody was disingenuous to the ploughmen

After all we all have been or still are ploughmen

The comments were made about two plots given vastly different scores when on walking the plots did not feel that different and visually were not that different to have 14 points difference over 2 aspects

It was those 14 points that changed the outcome of the placing.

We all plough and are judged at every match not only by the judges but everyone else that views our work so know what it feels like to be judged

My comment about a forum member was made as the individual that has very strong opinions of how it should be done often makes judgement on others based on his own ability/ achievements.

If you were a ploughman today thank you for your plot as without the plough men we could not have achieved what we did.

 

[Scu6499]

Don’t get to serious we all do it for fun really . But what are buts and a joining furrow only the second time I’ve ploughed a wonky plot

 

[Dealer]

We were as much in the dark as you when it came to the reversible plots I don't think any of the ploughmen that attended plough reversible

We had crib sheets on each aspect and judged against the sheet

Some aspects like uniformity, firmness and the like were judged against the other plots

If you look at the scores I gave both plots were higher than the coaches gave so I cant see how we did anyone down really

As for taking it seriously the main aim from my point of view was to get what the judges were looking for so I could be more informed on the aspects I am scoring low on when I think I should get higher marks

 

[Ley253]

Right Mr dealer.
You have made two disparaging remarks. I agree its often that I state what should be done, and, as my scores at a local seminar were very close to those given by the master judges, I feel that I am not far wrong in this,I am after all trying to improve things.
I am first to admit that yesterday was a complete disaster, and the work a disgrace.In my defence, I would mention that I was trying out one new (to me) idea, which did show promise. The rest of the time, however I was trying to find the cause of a problem in the uniformaty of the work, this only shows on some land, but yesterday was a prime example.
To be honest, this was a mistake, but hindsight is a wonderful thing! I ran out of both energy and time, to which can be added incentive to continue, no doubt, you will find the last to your satisfaction, as it seems to agree with your above comments!
Perhaps, when you take the time, and make the effort to drive three hours(round trip) and work hard all day just to give people something to pick holes in, you will be qualified to make such comments, remember, without the demonstrators, you would have no seminars to attend.

 

[Dealer]

Ley253

I will start by thanking you for your time and cost of travelling to Hereford.

I also pointed this out to others yesterday

Now I take no pleasure in your below par performance yesterday

The plot you had was the worst in the row but that can't be an excuse for some aspects that were less than I would have expected for an experienced ploughmen that has ploughed at the national as many times as you have.

Several other ploughmen also used the day to test modified parts and new techniques

Given that you are happy to dish out advice / criticism on here I felt my post was justified although I might highlight that no mention of who it was.

Looking at you equipment it was obvious to me that the world style kit is loaded with adjustments and bespoke parts that bare little resemblance to the origin of the plough so many adjustments that it would be a challenge for anyone to get them in the correct place at the right time.


This is a suggestion to you that i shared with a fellow attendee and who agreed with me.

You should consider selling your tractor and plough and buying a vintage outfit or even a fergie outfit.

For the following reasons

Easier and cheaper to transport

Less complicated and easier to operate

More matches with these classes meaning more ploughing time and probably less travelling for you

These classes are more even in regard to the equipment so less cost to try and stay competitive

All the above s with the objective of prolonging your ploughing years and enhancing your enjoyment of the sport

It was obvious to me that you may not be in the best of health so getting on and off the tractor to make a myriad of adjustments cant be fun

You won't agree with what I have written and that's your choice.

Regards

Mr Dealer

 

[marshbarn]

Where is that popcorn icon

 

[Ley253]

Dealer,
Thanks for your reply.And nice to know that some of my effort was appreciated, and we do agree on the plot! When I saw it I could have wept, to be asked to do superlative work, which was only there to be criticised, on that was a bad joke, to say the least. Still, at least there was no problem finding faults, and as you say, no shortage!
However, you do expect a bit much, asking every one who offers advice, and criticises an art form to be able to demonstrate the form to the highest level, for example, could Torville and Dean still get their perfect score today,? They can rightly offer advice though.
The plough may look complicated, but it really is not. I would think that all the adjustments would be found on a top line classic plough, I may have them power assisted though.
Selling my kit would not realise the benefits you mention
I would still need the lorry, it is by far cheaper to run than any thing else.
As I make most parts I need and am happy with the super hydrein bodies the plough costs are probably similar.
Complications are covered, though having all the levers so close together is having some effect.
Not sure about match availability, I seem to be out most W/E, and caravan takes care of distance, like a snail, my house goes with me!
I can in fact make many adjustments from the tractor seat, for example I can change from normal to a single furrow, and back from there. To be honest I dont think I could plough vintage, too much effort involved, turning all those handles. (and I have done it, started there, qualified with a trailer plough against all the modern at FFF&B in 1982 for my first national.) That was the reason for going world style, or semi digger as it was then.
I must admit to suffering a bit by the end, but I had done far more work that I normally would have, changing shares around and moving the front disk countless times. By the time I got to the finish, I just did it, I had no time or energy left to care. Noticeable memory failure means more check lists, but that was intended anyway!
If my health, or lack of it, is so obvious to you, I think I had better find a carpenter, and order a new suit. Truly, I only felt very tired!

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

When I did a judges seminar the other year I was surprised at some of the different views in the pack, for pretty, much most of the aspects! There were very differing views between the world style and the vintage/classic people on both starts and finishes. Inns/outs were a big debate, some just likes them neat, others preferred them to be in-line like you'd do with a euro style with hyd top link and level box. I certainly found it very interesting, the big learning point to me was using the full scale of the points ie heavily reward good work and heavily deduct for bad... I also had a new found respect for judges, trying to remember each plot and why you'd scored it that way is more difficult than you think! I think this was made worse by walking back and forth discussing on the day, I think its easier to start at one plot, set you points and then go up and down from that as you work your way up....trouble is, if you're on your own you need to walk both sides!

The last thing I'll say is which finish should get more points - bent and clean cut OR straight and dirty! (and you'll guess my answer on the basis that not being straight is a clear cardinal sin isn't it ?) There were certainly opposing views!

 

[Ley253]

You noticed the prime reason for the seminars then! Its to try to stop the "tower of babel "multitude of interpretations.One other thing, you dont judge plots against each other, you judge them on their compliance(or not ) with a known standard. Trying to do it the other way leads to plenty of (perhaps unwanted) exercise, running up and down the windings, fun in the rain, on a hill with thirty plots to look at!
Regarding the finish, as its the last eight furrows, the straight but dirty has perhaps one poor furrow, the clean but bent would likely have more, so straight wins.
Bet one cause for "conversation" was the use of tail fins to obliterate the first crown furrows in the world style start!

 

[bobk]

Do the judges take the plot in to consideration ? or is it luck of the draw ?

 

[Roy Stokes]

Do the judges take the plot in to consideration ? or is it luck of the draw ?

in my opinion Bob, the judge should judge the work and only the work, the plot is the luck of the draw as you have stated, the location that the ploughman/woman lives should have no bearing or his standing within the ploughing community, however all the above can be taken into account sometimes, it can be as political as the Eurovision song contest but most of the time it's not far wrong

 

[MrNoo]

Do the judges take the plot in to consideration ? or is it luck of the draw ?

They didnt seem to, the trailer plough chap had a real wet hole on one end of his split, and as such the whole outfit sunk and gave him a large front furrow for a few feet. Judge said he only judges what he can see despite knowing the reason behind the large front furrow.

 

[bobk]

in my opinion Bob, the judge should judge the work and only the work, the plot is the luck of the draw as you have stated, the location that the ploughman/woman lives should have no bearing or his standing within the ploughing community, however all the above can be taken into account sometimes, it can be as political as the Eurovision song contest but most of the time it's not far wrong

But the best ploughmen get the best land ime , that's not luck .

 

[MrNoo]

But the best ploughmen get the best land ime , that's not luck .

Not always! Richard Ingram had a terrible plot a week or two ago at North Notts, thought I was in with a chance! He still won! I do think it's luck of the draw, have had good and had very bad ones, sure it all evens out at the end of the day!!