Last Ham Standing

[Walterp]

It can't be long, now, before we see the closure of the last High Street butcher: their numbers have fallen by 90% since the 1950's, 40% of that decline occurring within the last decade. They'd only be following independent fishmongers, wouldn't they? who are now almost extinct.

Does it matter? After all, meat is still being sold, it's just relocated to supermarkets.

Well, Jane Jacobs ('The Death and Life of Great American Cities' 1960) reckoned that it did - her research suggested that opening supermarkets and closing independent retailers resulted in reduced participation in local charities, churches, campaign groups and, even, voting. Seems a bit far-fetched, but she thought that communities "are created by myriad small daily encounters: getting cooking tips from the greengrocer, hearing about a job from the butcher, recommending a good plumber at the bakery, exchanging opinions in the pub".

"The sum of such casual, public contact at the local level," wrote Jacobs, "…is a feeling for the public identity of people, a web of public respect and trust." Supermarkets minimise human contact in the interests of efficiency and convenience; anyone who has ever struggled to put a lamb pasanda through the robot till at midnight at the all-night Tesco's in Carmarthen has to accept that, maybe, Jane Jacobs has a point.

Perhaps it's hard to blame Tesco's for why we no longer bother to vote, let alone talk to our next-door neighbours; but we CAN blame Big Retail for a diminishing choice of shops, both for the consumer to buy from, and - more importantly for farmers - for suppliers to sell to (a 'monopsony').

I remember the guy behind the late 'Triple S' meat-packers in Devon explaining to me, in gruesome detail, exactly how ruthless Big Retail could be, when it came to buying pies off him. Ironically (and, No, I'm not making this up as I go along...) he said he preferred selling to small independents like the 'Hungry Horse' pub chain.

So ought farmers to resist the idea of an integrated beef supply chain, where breeds, feeds and needs are all dictated by the end buyer?

 

[multi power]

walter i could not agree more, big retailers are bad news for all of us, except anybodt selling horse, far better if we all supported local traders, personaly i would not touch meat from a supermarket, i ALWAYS support the butcher

 

[Stoxs]

Maybe the horse scandal may prevent the end of the high street butcher for a while.
I am guilty of not using them like many others , pressure to make ends meet is the biggest driver and convinience.

 

[multi power]

is a good butcher realy any more expencive than say tesco? i dont think so, plus the meat does not taste like cardboard n all gets eaten n enjoyed

 

[Stoxs]

is a good butcher realy any more expencive than say tesco? i dont think so, plus the meat does not taste like cardboard n all gets eaten n enjoyed

in fairness i have had some good cuts of meat form tescos and not the tescos finest either, we tried a value piece of beef/horse one day and it was tender and tasty!

Not done a price comparison with both so cant really say if ther eis any difference.

 

[JD-Kid]

had good meat from both butcher and supermarket then again had some total crap from some butchers , one close to us changed hands now almost shut

price much of a muchness to be fair maybe diffrent supermarkets over here most here have in house butchers and strange to say one butcher i know sells product from one of the NZ supplyers to tesco's

if all the shops were in a mall baker fruit and veg butcher frozen goods dry goods etc etc ... now there is an idea set up a market just like a super market one point of sale etc but till knows what seller sold product pay a shear for building space etc

thing with the supermarket is people don't have to talk just zoom though check list and if they get a stuck up check out chick don't even have to open there mouths just nod grunt and give visa card

a multy market it's the chatting bit of a yarn etc talking to sellers and staff

i don't think the end of some shops is 100% to blame on the supermarkets a lot of the public need a kick up the arse as well

 

[Penmoel]

The problem is small independents are struggling to compete with the supermarkets. In Aberystwyth local planners are looking to allow Tesco and M&S into town, what hope does the local florist, butcher or off licence stand, especially when they are paying the high st rates, and have traffic wardens , sorry parking attendents issuing £30 tickets outside their doors.

Aber mind is probably 20 years behind other towns in going down this route, which makes the planners even more culpable.

Should we as farmers become part of supply chain or producer clubs? Do you really want to be part of cost plus scheme and possibly go down the same route as Pig and poultry where your buyer really decides what you margin will be. All we can hope for is a strong export market as we currently have for real competition.

As money gets tighter the supers will offer reasonable or good products for the masses, whilst the wealthier will still be able to use the few specialists there are about, I am afraid its all rather inevitable now.

 

[multi power]

well yes supermarkets only there as people are dumb enough to use them

 

[Penmoel]

well yes supermarkets only there as people are dumb enough to use them

I dont think you should assume all our customers are dumb, you must admit the supers are providing what consulers want, once they get them in they can lead them where they want.

By the way guilty of having been to Morrisons in Aber tonight. Did not buy any meat though-never do

 

[multi power]

i myself am dumb enough to go into supermarkets as well, but wise enough to avoid them as much as possible

 

[JD-Kid]

we shop at them quite a bit ,with being 1.5-2 hours from the shops it maybe only on weekend in town so alot of butchers etc closed on the weekend also quite a few shut earlyer .. know a few supermarkets open 24 hours a day and that can suit a lot of peoples lifestyles work hours etc

 

[Walterp]

Aber mind is probably 20 years behind other towns in going down this route, which makes the planners even more culpable.

Should we as farmers become part of supply chain or producer clubs? Do you really want to be part of cost plus scheme and possibly go down the same route as Pig and poultry where your buyer really decides what you margin will be. All we can hope for is a strong export market as we currently have for real competition.

As money gets tighter the supers will offer reasonable or good products for the masses, whilst the wealthier will still be able to use the few specialists there are about, I am afraid its all rather inevitable now.

Yes, well, I'm sure you're correct in all of this - but I think I prefer to remember both Aber., and the meat market, as it was back in the 1970' and 1980's - a wide choice of outlets, lots of buyers and everyone seemed to make a living.

As for producer clubs, take a look at Blade Farming's blurb: skip the froth and you'll see an insistence on over-forced, under-weight and under-spec beef being produced to Big Retail's specification. Just like bulling heifers, they just can't WAIT, can they?


[Walterp pauses, remembers his student days, and sighs sadly: "Bet no one now remembers the Coffee House in Aber, where the best salami pizzas in the World were cooked..."]

 

[IANTO]

There is nothing new under the sun.

Empires Mongol, Roman, Turkish, Russian and British Empires have all come and gone.

In the 18th and early 19th Century during the heyday of the Industrial Revolution, Employees were paid in Tokens issued by their Industrial Masters, which could only be spent in the "Truck Shops" that their masters owned.

In due course, "Truck Shops" were declared illegal which enabled small independents to flourish.

Supermarkets, have built Empires, but like every other Empire will decline in due course.

I may be wrong, but believe that the recent "Horse Meat Scandal" may well be a pivotal point for consumers and Supermarkets.

Farmers I believe, if they stuck together have within their power, the means to ensure a fairer playing field, which would in my opinion benefit the UK Economy, and all of us in the long run.

Make Tesco and the other Supermarkets compete at marts with each other and the high street butcher.

 

[JD-Kid]

FFS farmers sticking together you only need to look on here and there are people selling short on grazeing , screwing dealers , moaning like a banshe with there tit in the wringer, if they were in a tug O war team 1/2 of them would be pushing .. kinda makes me laugh when we fly the buy our product flag while sitting on a swiss made chair wearing cotton and manmade product cloth sowen up in china typeing on a computer made in japan a german tractor on tires made in turkey pulling a plow made in france later to be sowen down with imported ferts and cloned chems and we are saying to the exemploye's of the rag trade etc etc support us ......... i don't belive the kettle could get any blacker


Horsegate will just go under the carpet within 6 months no one will even care about it

the red tape if more testing comes in will screw the smaller killing plants and butchers

i would question if there is a high mark up in running a butchers shop , sure people will say i sell boxes and make a good mark up BUT like on line sales no buildings staff, frezers, chillers ,power , etc etc holaday pay, taxes advertiseing running costs .. i would say a % of meat sold at butchers is sold at a loss or break even

 

[grumpy]

i wish the nhs was run by tescos,

 

[JD-Kid]

don't think i'd be too keen on the transplants ... heard dave just got the tesco value penis transplant some say he's hung like a horse ....

that a side think on this
from a shoppers point of view if you walked in to any supermarket and said to the guy behind the counter where dose your meat come from would you like

we buy it from the markets or

we have a large group of farmers that supply us to a list of spec's ,animal welfair ,and QC checks ,would you like to see a copy? any how we are working with these farmers to try and find ways of better supplying us and ways to help them from info shearing on there gradeing and diffrent feeds .. all stock taken off farm to killing plant then to our own inhouse packers so we can change types of cuts as demand changes ..

my view is if tescos are going to come out of this they realy need closer links too the supplyers and have more in house control on the system even if that means they own the cutting plants or where they can in shop butchers they realy need to be able to tell a story

local butcher has a pic of the farms the beef lamb and pork comes from in his shop they breed of animal and a write up on the farmer he buys direct off the farmer , one other butcher we dealt with in the past wanted to buy cattle off us ,IF in an area we could have done so i would have thought about it 7-10 cattle a week grass finshed only

the industry needs to get the trust back into it but for that to happen the supply chain needs to be shorter and better controled

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The florest in Aber is crap, shut on Satarday afternoon never has what you want in stock and rude and short with customers, on the other had the only supermarket in town that has it all it's own way has it has no competion and you have to cue for an age at the till as it's so busy put a wonderful display on for Mothersday, well done Morisons, you showed the small shops how it's done,

 

[Penmoel]

The florest in Aber is crap, shut on Satarday afternoon never has what you want in stock and rude and short with customers, on the other had the only supermarket in town that has it all it's own way has it has no competion and you have to cue for an age at the till as it's so busy put a wonderful display on for Mothersday, well done Morisons, you showed the small shops how it's done,

Had to read that twice- could not make out if it was the Forest or the Florist which was crap

At 8:30pm last night Morrisons had more flowers in the entrance/exit lobby than would fit in any independent florist, who could never afford to be left with so much stock at that stage. Another loss leader perhaps?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I was there a 2 after I drove off in a strop after visiting the wonderful small shop in town after spending half an hour trying to park and walking half a mile

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Wouldn't it be wonderfull if we still had churns and we could all make a living with 10 on the stand,