Livestock SFI - what would you like to see ?

[Clive]

So it’s clear from many other threads that SFI seemingly offers very little or nothing that’s attractive to livestock / grassland

so what do you want ? Use this thread to outline your own livestock / grassland SFI standard that both delivers public goods and natural capital for tax payers whilst being attractive to encourage farmer uptake ?

also put your (realistic) price on the option you describe ?

@Defra Farming @Janet Hughes Defra will read this thread so here’s your chance maybe ?

please keep it polite, not personal and un political, just outline your proposed standard and set your price

 

[topground]

I keep carbon capture machines that convert grass produced by the interaction of sunshine soil and rain into urine and manure that feeds the soil while the worms draw the carbon in that manure into the soil.
In recognising that fact DEFRA will have to accept that the mantra they have clearly followed that ruminants are killing the planet while the general public can continue to fly here there and everywhere without consequence is a lie.
I need a payment that recognises the machines I refer to ( here they are known as cattle) contribute to the continuing existence of the local flora and fauna. Their manure feeds insects that the local bird population rely on, they keep the invasive plants at bay, (bracken then Brambles) which if unchecked by natural means through grazing ruins the picturesque landscape the tourists admire. They also provide a source of nutrient dense protein and a range of bi products for everything from footware to cosmetics.
To be Sustainable, Farming my carbon capture machines the returns I need, in fact I require an Incentive of £90 per acre over the holding. For that Incentive I am prepared maintain the visual amenity the cattle provide, including the trees and hedges and put up with the stress of dealing with an enforcement body, be that RPA or NE, who are judge and jury in their own court.
Anything less than that I won’t be part of any DEFRA scheme and I will do what I like with the land I have bought and paid for within the constraints of existing legislation. DEFRA know that the enforcement of legislation is expensive and long winded which is why they prefer schemes with conditions where they can claw back momey with no right of appeal which is very easy.

 

[delilah]

The only land use to get an area payment should be permanent pasture. Said it from day 1.

edit: payment rates attached.

 

[spin cycle]

i'll have a go.....suggesting rather than advocating to avoid ,hopefully, 'flak'

ccp 1....'carbon capture pasture'......undertake not to plough (for reseed) or harrow greater than 25mm for 5 years......£75-£100/ac????

otherwise why not tailor some arable options.....ab1...ab8 could be adapted

ab5......roundup suitable plots in fields for ground nesting birds.......up2 needs to be upped to £200/ha

a sort of ab15......clover overseeded and left for a year for pollinators

 

[topground]

i'll have a go.....suggesting rather than advocating to avoid ,hopefully, 'flak'

ccp 1....'carbon capture pasture'......undertake not to plough (for reseed) or harrow greater than 25mm for 5 years......£75-£100/ac????

otherwise why not tailor some arable options.....ab1...ab8 could be adapted

ab5......roundup suitable plots in fields for ground nesting birds.......up2 needs to be upped to £200/ha

a sort of ab15......clover overseeded and left for a year for pollinators

Happy to encourage ground nesting birds but I need to be able to control top end predators in order for those ground nesting birds to have any chance of reading young to maturity. In order to provide public goods for public money an amendment to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 would be required to put on the general licence any top end predator likely to take ground nesting birds eggs and chicks where land is entered into any DEFRA scheme .

 

[spin cycle]

Happy to encourage ground nesting birds but I need to be able to control top end predators in order for those ground nesting birds to have any chance of reading young to maturity. In order to provide public goods for public money an amendment to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 would be required to put on the general licence any top end predator likely to take ground nesting birds eggs and chicks where land is entered into any DEFRA scheme .

what sort of predators?...

 

[topground]

Buzzards and Badgers mainly.
Yellow Hammers dont stand a chance singing on top a hedge to be picked off by any passing Sparrow Hawk. Any excess corvids.

 

[spin cycle]

Buzzards and Badgers mainly.
Yellow Hammers dont stand a chance singing on top a hedge to be picked off by any passing Sparrow Hawk. Any excess corvids.

nope you can't have that.....much as i agree/sympathise.....we have those predators to in arable areas to

if you don't feel 'comfortable' having an option like that without controlling those predators the option is not for you

 

[Wood field]

Upland and moorland grazing here, the public good ?
Well grazed moors equals less fire risk , grazed pastures , carbon sequestration and ground nesting birds
Late cut hay giving pollinators and birds feed until late July
This is the normal on our farm and most around us
The biggest public good on top of the above , local sustainable food

 

[topground]

nope you can't have that.....much as i agree/sympathise.....we have those predators to in arable areas to

if you don't feel 'comfortable' having an option like that without controlling those predators the option is not for you

You miss my point. Any measures taken protect ground nesting birds habitat are a waste of time and public money if their eggs and chicks are taken by predators currently uncontrolled.

 

[Muddyroads]

As long as the emphasis is on payments for income forgone it’s going to be a non starter.

If DEFRA want to really support livestock and grassland farmers they need to remove the “rewilding” options that are effectively area payments for de stocking and use that money to reward permanent/well managed grassland.
De stocking achieves nothing in terms of public goods. Permanent grassland and well managed grazed land sequesters carbon and supports a myriad of life forms.

 

[Raynard]

GS4 available for organic farmers.

instead of grazing rest “months”, qualification through rotational grazing.

 

[spin cycle]

You miss my point. Any measures taken protect ground nesting birds habitat are a waste of time and public money if their eggs and chicks are taken by predators currently uncontrolled.

no i'm not.....believe me.....but you need a certain 'philosophical mindset' to be in cs......you do the 'work' create the 'conditions required'.....sadly if predators prevail there's nothing you can do

 

[Wood field]

As long as the emphasis is on payments for income forgone it’s going to be a non starter.

If DEFRA want to really support livestock and grassland farmers they need to remove the “rewilding” options that are effectively area payments for de stocking and use that money to reward permanent/well managed grassland.
De stocking achieves nothing in terms of public goods. Permanent grassland and well managed grazed land sequesters carbon and supports a myriad of life forms.

I think a starting point would be they , Defra, admit or deny the perception that they want to de stock the hills
That would at least give us a starting point , mind you why would we believe a word they say ?

 

[andybk]

I would like recognition of historic perm pasture with high levels of legume and species rich plants ,(ab1 and ab8 ) its plain crazy they pay to put new ones in while ignoring whats there already . Why should my arable landlord get paid for new ab8 at £500+ ac , ,when i have at least as much of my own grazed by sheep at a low rate ,that gets a basic payment . ps : im not likely to rip mine out if payments alter !

 

[Hill Ground]

i'll have a go.....suggesting rather than advocating to avoid ,hopefully, 'flak'

ccp 1....'carbon capture pasture'......undertake not to plough (for reseed) or harrow greater than 25mm for 5 years......£75-£100/ac????

otherwise why not tailor some arable options.....ab1...ab8 could be adapted

ab5......roundup suitable plots in fields for ground nesting birds.......up2 needs to be upped to £200/ha

a sort of ab15......clover overseeded and left for a year for pollinators

How about in your ab15 modification, introduction of clover and yellow rattle. The yellow rattle hopefully holding back the grass enough to allow other species a chance?

 

[spin cycle]

How about in your ab15 modification, introduction of clover and yellow rattle. The yellow rattle hopefully holding back the grass enough to allow other species a chance?

you'd know better than i

 

[Northern territory]

I would like recognition of historic perm pasture with high levels of legume and species rich plants ,(ab1 and ab8 ) its plain crazy they pay to put new ones in while ignoring whats there already . Why should my arable landlord get paid for new ab8 at £500+ ac , ,when i have at least as much of my own grazed by sheep at a low rate ,that gets a basic payment . ps : im not likely to rip mine out if payments alter !

This. Permanent grassland should attract much higher payment rates. Equivalent if not better than arable options. If they want to put a limit on acerage then fair enough

 

[CornishTone]

Permanent pasture ticks just about every box DEFRA want to tick.

Increased biodiversity
Carbon storage/sequestration
Clean water
Clean air
Thriving communities

So why isn’t it being rewarded as such? Permanent pasture should form the cornerstone of SFI with a payment that recognises its value, and all the other options bolted on around it.

But, it’s also worth remembering that DEFRA and government want wholesale change across the rural sector, and they want British Ag to take responsibility for that change for less than the price of one aircraft carrier. That’s what they think we’re worth… less than one (admittedly very big) ship!

But let’s try not to get political!

 

[soapsud]

Permanent pasture ticks just about every box DEFRA want to tick.

Carbon storage/sequestration

More needs to saying on this
(it goes something like...)

The impression Defra gives by how much and in what direction they throw funding suggests that PP is already full to capacity on the carbon storage front and thus can't sequester anymore. To them, livestock are feeding off the natural cycling processes as an addition, like the bugs feeding off the flees feeding off the dog. So if livestock farmers want to make a living from that, then, to Defra, they say that is a reward in itself and doesn't need any funding.

The science says differently. Grazed pasture continues the process of sequesting - which means ruminants are crucial to net zero. Having sheep and cattle on the land is therefore a public good. For example, look at how many insects depend on livestock and then look at the birds who eat the insects. AB8 is fine for goldfinches but what about the wagtails.