Most intelligent post I have read in a while
Loader Wagon vs Self Propelled
- Thread starter drizzle
- Start date
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
How many cuts do you do?
How far is your ground from the pit?
What horsepower tractors do you have?
Scholsey
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
We use contractors with a big jag for 1st and 2nd cut, usually around 250 acres combined, aim for mid may and end of june if poss, 3rd + cut we use a wagon, we have a contractor come in with rake/wagon and buckrake and we use our own wagon, which is primarily used to feed fresh cut grass april-october on the longer hauls or if the buckrake has time and can handle 2 wagons. Crap grass is always going to make crap silage whether its picked up with a baler/SPFH/trailed or a wagon, their not magic machines, i would say the buckrake has more to do with how the silage comes out than what chops it.
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
I agree
the man on the pit is the most important but esp with the wagon if it’s stringy and dry
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
Not trying to biased and I don’t want ye to think I’m trying to promote one system over the other but I do think grass from the new sp are chopping too short the cattle do prefer longer silage but it doesn’t have to be like single chop. Diet feeding with straw in the mix does help does anyone know did class bring out a knife with gaps in it for grass silage ,
Scholsey
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
if its stringy and dry you should be baling it.
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
Bales are not for everyone
ollie989898
Member
One of the most professional and biggest farmer customers I knew usually had most of their grass silage brought in by a contractor with a forage wagon. If it gave bad results or didn't work they would never do it I assure you. This is 600+ Ferrari cows I am talking about.
Bales? The cost of the wrapping and labour required to collect them makes them nonsensical. Clamp silage is just faster and easier for all concerned.
Neighbour hired a wagon last week
Contractor be normally uses for self propelled was at another farm with a demo wagon
Demo wagon did two loads before farmer stopped it and requested the self propelled. Chop length was far too long.
Next door neighbour lifted 110 acres over two bits of days between milkings. Wagon saved 4l of diesel per acre compared to the stuff propelled, plus they'd no cart tractors to fill up or hire. They also had no buckrake hire, using their own machine was sufficient.
The neighbour's chop length was about 30mm I'm told.
I presume the contractor had removed a few of the knives to increase the chop length of the demonstration. He doesn't want people to switch to a wagon because there's far more acres with far more iron hired using a self propelled, and hence the contractor makes more money.
It's not rocket science, if you've the time and enough mechanical skills to maintain a wagon, they're a cost saving over self propelled.
Me, I've no pit so bale them up and spend £2.50 every bale on plastic.
Contractor be normally uses for self propelled was at another farm with a demo wagon
Demo wagon did two loads before farmer stopped it and requested the self propelled. Chop length was far too long.
Next door neighbour lifted 110 acres over two bits of days between milkings. Wagon saved 4l of diesel per acre compared to the stuff propelled, plus they'd no cart tractors to fill up or hire. They also had no buckrake hire, using their own machine was sufficient.
The neighbour's chop length was about 30mm I'm told.
I presume the contractor had removed a few of the knives to increase the chop length of the demonstration. He doesn't want people to switch to a wagon because there's far more acres with far more iron hired using a self propelled, and hence the contractor makes more money.
It's not rocket science, if you've the time and enough mechanical skills to maintain a wagon, they're a cost saving over self propelled.
Me, I've no pit so bale them up and spend £2.50 every bale on plastic.
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
Two farmers near me one cuts early may and he would never let a sp inside the gate again and the farmer beside him cuts in June and he wouldn let a wagon inside his gate coincidentally there is a third man that bales his cos he thinks there is too much waste in the winter with a wide pit face everybody has their reasons and none of these men are wrong
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
Does anyone know what trailed harvester has the most output
dowcow
Member
- Location
- Lancashire
We use a wagon because it allows us to buckrake ourselves, and take more time over it. We did use a trailed forager for years, but getting staff organised was an issue. This way, Dad can buckrake at his leisure, mum rakes up, and I fetch it home. We go for many young cuts of grass, and we would be back of the queue for a SPF due to our fairly low acreage. Which means in a patchy year we would be the ones who would be harvesting on days we wouldn't consider when we have our own equipment. I'm sure it isn't just us that have had contractors pushing to go a few days early or later than hoped for.
We also like the flexibility of just taking 10 acre if there's only 10 acre ready for cutting, or grabbing a field and quickly whapping some maize seed down and then getting the rest a week later. Sometimes we've had fields that need a bit longer between cuts, and this gives us more flexibility. We can easily leave a few acres for a week or two. We do the same with bales for later cuts. Very rarely do we decide to mow more than a third of our cutting ground on the same day.
We also like the flexibility of just taking 10 acre if there's only 10 acre ready for cutting, or grabbing a field and quickly whapping some maize seed down and then getting the rest a week later. Sometimes we've had fields that need a bit longer between cuts, and this gives us more flexibility. We can easily leave a few acres for a week or two. We do the same with bales for later cuts. Very rarely do we decide to mow more than a third of our cutting ground on the same day.
- Location
- midlands lreland
I'm working with a wagon three years now. My main reason for buying it was labour as I'm a one man band I had to find a minimum of three driver along with myself when I was running a harvester. The trick with wagons is to keep the knives sharpened regularly and after that keep it greased and away you go. They preform at their best in young leafy grass so if your doing multi cuts of grass during the year a wagon is ideal for this.
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
I
couldn’t have put it better myself what make do you have
- Location
- midlands lreland
To keep the knives sharp you could buy a fancy expensive machine from a certain Irishman, or even a slightly less fancy machine the certain Irishman took in against a new one.
Having tried to deal with said Irishman twice, I built my own sharpening device...
Jig looks like shyte, but the perfectly flat ground blades have lasted for over double the number of bales compared to free hand grinding.
(This blade needed a couple of licks to finish, you can see the edge of what's left of the previous blunt rounded grind)
Blunt knives in a baler won't be seen until the winter, but blunt wagon knives really give the machines a bad name.
This way you keep the wagon knives sharp and it costs bugger all.
fiat 9090
Member
- Location
- co offaly eire
What was wrong with the new
what was wrong with the new model
dowcow
Member
- Location
- Lancashire
I have the same wagon
I would like to upgrade to something a little newer at some point. It is a bit slow at loading compared to the newer ones. The banks of pushers don't work as effectively as the spirals in the newer ones I think, puts too much stress on the chain and shaft if I go much faster than what I do manage to achieve. Agree about keeping the knives sharp too. Handy little wagon though, using it on a 5465 MF but I think it would do just as well on a smaller tractor most of the time.
"Proper" sharpening machine near 2 grand new.
Grinding by hand doesn't sharpen the blades properly.
Home made jig cost nothing
BDBed
Member
- Location
- Melton Mowbray
I had the auto cut on my torro 6010 as I bought the ex demo machine. I'm very pleased I did. It is not the complete answer to sharpening knives but apart from the odd touch up it has been mostly what I've used. The customers really like it because they can see the knives being sharpened them selves and they know sharpe knives is the key. This option is not for everyone as you have to justify the extra cost and be happy to deal with the maintenance of it. For me it has worked well so far even though I was told it wouldn't.