looking for an allotment / garden space

[asparagusbrain]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Guessed this will be the most appropriate forum to post, as wanted to collect different opinions and thoughts.

I am looking to buy a small plot of land for a hobby orchard, within an 1-1.5 hr drive from South East London (i.e. Kent or Essex). Was thinking about 0.5 to 1 acre. Reasonable quality, not prime land, but needs to be well drained.

I know that land is seldom sold in such tiny parcels. Do you think any real farmer could be interested in selling to me? What price should I be looking at?

Very grateful for all opinions!

 

[renewablejohn]

Minimum 100k per acre. Treat it the same as a building plot

 

[asparagusbrain]

Minimum 100k per acre. Treat it the same as a building plot

Oh wow. Even if with no development rights attached?

 

[renewablejohn]

Oh wow. Even if with no development rights attached?

If it had any chance of development then the farmer would already have outline permission and have a landbank worth 500k per acre. You realise you are talking commuter belt for London.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Minimum 100k per acre. Treat it the same as a building plot

No that's just being stupid (and greedy). Plenty of places in SE not a hope in hell of development but could have an orchard.

 

[Princess Pooper]

There you go, no idea if aspect and drainage are any good as an orchard, but 3 acres near Bromley for £49k, buy it and sell the surplus off. http://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/rural-property-for-sale/south-east/london/cudham-as0itbve/

Plenty of other smallish plots on the same website below 10 acres, could ask if they would split as that would still leave a pony paddock.

 

[Wink]

Don't have exact answer to your question but am about an hour or so from London. £75k up the road from me would get you 5acres of a split up arable field and other horsey people have been buying an acre or two, I believe for about 15k an acre. Seems to be a few come about for sale as pony paddocks etc of larger fields that people are splitting down to make more money. Would imagine the smaller you go the more you pay per acre? And if any chance of building on not a chance at all - plenty of those small fields about the place too.

 

[renewablejohn]

No that's just being stupid (and greedy). Plenty of places in SE not a hope in hell of development but could have an orchard.

But thats what people are. ie greedy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-59943355.html

 

[Wink]

But thats what people are. ie greedy

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-59943355.html

....but that does have a lot of buildings etc as was a garden centre so also presumably excellent access for a sizeable business and not a little field/paddock out the way. Get your point though.

 

[renewablejohn]

....but that does have a lot of buildings etc as was a garden centre so also presumably excellent access for a sizeable business and not a little field/paddock out the way. Get your point though.

Your paying for the fact its a brown field site and planning should be relatively easy to obtain although cleaning up a site thats had a glasshouse demolished is very difficult.

 

[renewablejohn]

There you go, no idea if aspect and drainage are any good as an orchard, but 3 acres near Bromley for £49k, buy it and sell the surplus off. http://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/rural-property-for-sale/south-east/london/cudham-as0itbve/

Plenty of other smallish plots on the same website below 10 acres, could ask if they would split as that would still leave a pony paddock.

You would need to be careful with that plot as its part of an AONB so you would be restricted on what you could do with the land. I doubt whether planting an orchard would be acceptable.

 

[Princess Pooper]

You would need to be careful with that plot as its part of an AONB so you would be restricted on what you could do with the land. I doubt whether planting an orchard would be acceptable.

Plenty of other similar plots and an orchard is a lot more beautiful than horsiculture! As it's growing food not sure if it can be restricted, is it a change of use, even in an AONB or National Park. Not the same as a private garden attached to a house (which does need pp if taken out of ag land).

 

[Dry Rot]

If farmland, no change of use appears to be required:

Section 336 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines ‘agriculture' as including:

• ‘horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming;
• the breeding and keeping of livestock (including any creature kept for the production of food, wool, skins or fur, or for the purpose of its use in the farming of land);
• the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens or nursery grounds; and
• the use of land for woodlands where that use is ancillary to the farming of land for other agricultural purposes.’

 

[renewablejohn]

If farmland, no change of use appears to be required:

Section 336 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines ‘agriculture' as including:

• ‘horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming;
• the breeding and keeping of livestock (including any creature kept for the production of food, wool, skins or fur, or for the purpose of its use in the farming of land);
• the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens or nursery grounds; and
• the use of land for woodlands where that use is ancillary to the farming of land for other agricultural purposes.’

Dont know about the rules in a National Park or AONB but certainly in the SSSI next to me you would need permission to plant an orchard and according to the aims of the SSSI it would be refused.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Quite agree with you on SSSIs but AONB and National Parks are nothing like SSSIs (we have a SSSI on our land). The AONB and NPs are all about landscape (and access, in National Parks). SSSIs are about biodiversity and geology and geomorphology.

 

[asparagusbrain]

There you go, no idea if aspect and drainage are any good as an orchard, but 3 acres near Bromley for £49k, buy it and sell the surplus off. http://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/rural-property-for-sale/south-east/london/cudham-as0itbve/

Plenty of other smallish plots on the same website below 10 acres, could ask if they would split as that would still leave a pony paddock.

Thank you so much for the link! My orchard ambition has suddenly increased to three acres This particular plot is actually 10-15 mins drive from my place, closer than my current tiny allotment, and three times as cheap per sq m (compared to a personal loan). I will research whether an orchard will be allowed there, I am a complete novice in this area.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Thank you so much for the link! My orchard ambition has suddenly increased to three acres This particular plot is actually 10-15 mins drive from my place, closer than my current tiny allotment, and three times as cheap per sq m (compared to a personal loan). I will research whether an orchard will be allowed there, I am a complete novice in this area.

Best of luck! Hope you make something of it. Don't leave it too long before making an offer if you're serious though! I know someone near here who did exactly the same thing, made some decent cider too!

It was easy enough to find, I just googled farmland for sale in Kent!!!!

 

[suffolksmallholder]

You'll find one for £8k an acre in these parts but you will have to buy the whole. Sizes vary from 5 acres to 20. If you persevere you'll be able to out-bid the horsey speculators who usually drop out over £8k PA. Perhaps the way forward is to make a business plan with some friends & your bank?
There's a rising demand for 'craft' produce in this area with several local micro-breweries popping up in the last decade. There's always new areas & IMO Kent & Essex may have reached saturation point??
SS

 

[asparagusbrain]

It was easy enough to find, I just googled farmland for sale in Kent!!!!

Yeah, I started looking on the rightmove etc., and they list mainly small plots with development potential - or massive holdings. Simply googling for some reason just did not occur to me at all!

 

[asparagusbrain]

You'll find one for £8k an acre in these parts but you will have to buy the whole. Sizes vary from 5 acres to 20. If you persevere you'll be able to out-bid the horsey speculators who usually drop out over £8k PA. Perhaps the way forward is to make a business plan with some friends & your bank?
There's a rising demand for 'craft' produce in this area with several local micro-breweries popping up in the last decade. There's always new areas & IMO Kent & Essex may have reached saturation point??
SS

Thank you. I can buy with cash up to around 30K, will have to borrow over that. It is genuinely a hobby / personal consumption project, not for commercial profit. Even if myself and, say, my two closest friends (seven kids between us) don't have to buy seasonal fruit and berries @supermarket prices, it would pay £8k back easily in two-three years.

I, like everyone else, have an idea that will get me rich quick (not craft or artisan food, raw produce that has a hungry market at the moment), but it needs a small-scale trial first, as it relies on the introduction of a new (or rather long forgotten) crop to the UK.