Lungworm in prime lambs

[primmiemoo]

I'm in need of a spot of collective advice, please.
Had the results from the most recent consignment of lambs, and a third of them showed lungworm. Had several last year, but there are already more this year, to date.

After the expected nemotode rise and first drench, FEC counts said there wasn't challenge enough to worm beyond the second drench, so my guess is that's allowed lungworm to live.

Should I ignore FEC count, and increase dose interval in order to clobber lungworm?

If so, what's the best option of anthelmintic? By some miracle, white drench still works here, so I'd rather not use. Yellow drench doesn't do the keeper any good, but if needs must, etc. Clear drench is next on the list for them, so is one more effective against lungworm than another?, and I really don't want to use purples or oranges(?) ... because I don't.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[hendrebc]

Lungworm is a bitch whats worse is not all vets believe it will affect sheep. But it does it just usually turns into pneumonia so you automatically think its a pasturella outbreak but its the lungworm thats triggered it. Ive had it in lambs before and reluctantly i ignored the low fec and drenched them when i heard them coughing and it stopped it. I used yellow drench but i think any of them will do.

 

[neilo]

Lungworm is a bitch whats worse is not all vets believe it will affect sheep. But it does it just usually turns into pneumonia so you automatically think its a pasturella outbreak but its the lungworm thats triggered it. Ive had it in lambs before and reluctantly i ignored the low fec and drenched them when i heard them coughing and it stopped it. I used yellow drench but i think any of them will do.

Agree with this. Lung worm can show up on a FEC, but only where sheep have ingested eggs that they’ve been coughing up iirc. I’ve seen them a few times, but i can’t think that it’s any measure of lungworm infection level, other than they must have a fair dose that are laying eggs.
I’ve had concerns a couple of times, both times in retained ewe lambs in the Autumn. I’ve used clear drench both times and the coughing has stopped almost overnight. I’ve not used over drench groups for it, so they might well be equally effective.

@primmiemoo i had to worm a group of lambs last week. They had a FEC of 900 but half the eggs were nemo, despite being drenched in late May. They’re obviously still about/hatching. Lambs looked a lot better within a couple of days.

 

[primmiemoo]

Thanks, both. There's a group of April born lambs that had a handful that were mucky. The mucky ones have been drenched with white drench, and are dry again. I think that clearly defined seasonal challenges are suddenly flexible this year.

You mentioned coughing, @hendrebc . The lambs in the last group sold (near last of the Feb lot) didn't cough - that I heard. Some of the two-tooths with April lambs at foot have had a cough. Maybe they should be dosed?

If the next consignment come back with any pneumonia written on the report, I'll know where it's come from.

 

[hendrebc]

Agree with this. Lung worm can show up on a FEC, but only where sheep have ingested eggs that they’ve been coughing up iirc. I’ve seen them a few times, but i can’t think that it’s any measure of lungworm infection level, other than they must have a fair dose that are laying eggs.
I’ve had concerns a couple of times, both times in retained ewe lambs in the Autumn. I’ve used clear drench both times and the coughing has stopped almost overnight. I’ve not used over drench groups for it, so they might well be equally effective.

@primmiemoo i had to worm a group of lambs last week. They had a FEC of 900 but half the eggs were nemo, despite being drenched in late May. They’re obviously still about/hatching. Lambs looked a lot better within a couple of days.

Thats what i found too. I see the odd egg on a fec and if its a bad outbreak you can sometimes see what i think are parts of the lungworm chopped up in the sample but it might be something else. Ive only seen it in lambs with lungworm so im guessing thats what it is but im no expert.
From what i can gather and speaking to my vet (who does believe that lungworm affecrs sheep) if you know you have lungworm on the farm and you have lambs coughing and it is obviously affecting them, drench them and see if it clears it up. You will get quite good at spotting the signs after a time or two. It looks a lot like pneumonia normally but they wont have high temperatures unless its bad and has actually turned into pneumonia. I sometimes only dose the ones that are coughing if you dont have many so can pick them out and dont want them all under withdrawl.
Iirc adult sheep wont get it unless something else is bothering them too. As long as they keep getting exposure to it. If thy dont get a challenge for a long time they will 'forget' how to be immune to it and can get lungworm again. If they are vaccinated against pasturella it wont (or shouldnt) kill them though so they relearn that immunity while having the worms and evebtually they will not have lungworm again.
Thats why cattle can get it at turnout. They have been housed for a long time and havent had that challenge over winter so have lost their immunity. Sheep dont tend to he housed for long so dont lose that immunity and thats why some people dont believe that sheep dont get lungworm. Lambs need to learn that immunity though thats why we get trouble in them.
Disclaimer* im not a vet that might all be rubbish especially the last bit about immunity

 

[hendrebc]

Thanks, both. There's a group of April born lambs that had a handful that were mucky. The mucky ones have been drenched with white drench, and are dry again. I think that clearly defined seasonal challenges are suddenly flexible this year.

You mentioned coughing, @hendrebc . The lambs in the last group sold (near last of the Feb lot) didn't cough - that I heard. Some of the two-tooths with April lambs at foot have had a cough. Maybe they should be dosed?

If the next consignment come back with any pneumonia written on the report, I'll know where it's come from.

You usually hear them coughing when you run them somewhere while thry are being moved or gathered in to be handled. Its not really something youd notice unless you were listening for it.
The 2 tooths might benefit from a dose especially if they look poor. But they should clear up by themselves after weaning id see how it goes.

 

[Al R]

Thanks, both. There's a group of April born lambs that had a handful that were mucky. The mucky ones have been drenched with white drench, and are dry again. I think that clearly defined seasonal challenges are suddenly flexible this year.

You mentioned coughing, @hendrebc . The lambs in the last group sold (near last of the Feb lot) didn't cough - that I heard. Some of the two-tooths with April lambs at foot have had a cough. Maybe they should be dosed?

If the next consignment come back with any pneumonia written on the report, I'll know where it's come from.

It might be worth recording what tag numbers come from each field, I do this and it’s far easier to see if a field need to skip a week or if there’s a bad grade in there or high/low weight you’ll usually recognise the lamb from memory then. When we were set stocked we’d often have fluke coming up in certain fields, now im rotational grazing I see far less on the kill sheet but I think I have seen pleurisy on a few lambs this year.

 

[primmiemoo]

You usually hear them coughing when you run them somewhere while thry are being moved or gathered in to be handled. Its not really something youd notice unless you were listening for it.
The 2 tooths might benefit from a dose especially if they look poor. But they should clear up by themselves after weaning id see how it goes.

Rather like their keeper, they haven't had much running fast or far since turn out, so maybe that's why I haven't heard coughs. Think I'll do a BCS on the two-tooths and dose the poorest - they look ok on colour about the eyes and seem peert enough, so I don't think much else is going on. Aiming to wean in middle of next month. If the poor group is pulled out and found a platt to themselves until then, it'll reduce competition while they're recovering.

I'll have a proper chat with the sheep specialist, and see if there's a way of predicting a lungworm challenge to lambs. If a worming can be brought to coincide with it, that could reduce risk of losing a class of wormer - but of course I could be wrong

PS, re your thoughts in post 5, that's interesting about immunity. The bullocks had lungworm two years ago, with nothing seen before then since Dad would dose yearlings with huskvac decades ago. I'll ask the vet if there might be a connection, and whether there might be a flock immunity building up, with the numbers seen this year dropping in the future. If not, then would it be possible to concoct an oral vaccine.

There's always something with sheep

 

[primmiemoo]

It might be worth recording what tag numbers come from each field, I do this and it’s far easier to see if a field need to skip a week or if there’s a bad grade in there or high/low weight you’ll usually recognise the lamb from memory then. When we were set stocked we’d often have fluke coming up in certain fields, now im rotational grazing I see far less on the kill sheet but I think I have seen pleurisy on a few lambs this year.

You're right, there's a broad list here of what's where that shows up a risk in certain fields. There's a sort of bodged rotational grazing in place, and a group on one parcel of fields can do differently from one on another.

Anything that's dosed or needs extra handling gets beeped onto the system and followed through. So far, any pleurisy has come from the small group that's been on creep. It will be interesting what the coming change in the weather shows up in the rest of the lambs.

 

[Ysgythan]

Levamisole works on lungworms.