Manganese.

[Oldmacdonald]

Our soil suffers badly from manganese deficiency. It's at this time of year it shows most, as we need to wait for our clay soils to dry out enough to let us travel with the sprayer.

Whats my best options for treatment?

currently applying 2l/ha liquid Mn pretty much at T0, T1 and more if needs be.

 

[DrWazzock]

Clay soil, manganese deficiency? Firstly, are you sure it's not just cold wet ground?

If it is manganese deficiency then we add 5 litres per hectare liquid 30%N fertiliser to the tank to help the plants take in the manganese. manganese sulphate powder and bittersalz both at 5 kg per hectare.

Might also be worth getting some ammonium sulphate on. 120kg per hectare to acidify things up a bit and mobilise that soil manganese.

I am no agronomist, so not making any recommendations. Just saying what we do.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

Loamy top soil, clay slabs underneath.

It is cold and wet, however tillers will be dead if I wait for the soil warm to up, and it is currently trying to grow - so first Mn app is always a fire fighting job.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Joe Boy]

Does adding liquid N to the sprayer not cause any scorch when applied through normal nozzles. What Lts/ha do you spray at. Do you have fungicides in the tank as well when you do this?

 

[Daniel]

I've got some manganese to apply to some badly deficient fields, ran round the fields with just a tractor to find the wet spots and seems ok in the main. Not going to get far in this filth though:

 

[robbie]

Our land is horrendous for mn deficiency. I find the best way is little and often right through the season starting with 2.5 Lt/ha in with the autumn herb then again atleast once before Christmas ,then 2.5-5 lt/ha depending on severity when things start to grow after the first topdressing then 2.5 Lt/ha in the tank everytime I go through with the sprayer.

 

[Flat 10]

We always make sure MN goes on 2-3days BEFORE AN dose as AN makes it worse. Like @DrWazzock I find it hard to believe you have problems on heavy land. You want to be on Brecks or Black fen.

 

[Clive]

Rolls are the best cure, We suffer very badly on our land but have found establishment technique makes a big difference, more consolidation means less deficiency, we also mn dress seed

 

[Flat 10]

This too. Black has to be rolled in the spring. Before they knew about manganese they just kept rolling it and rolling it.............

 

[DrWazzock]

It makes me wonder if a theory I once read is a lot more important than I first thought.

The theory was that oxygen in the soil causes a surge in microbial activity which release mineralised N but lock up manganese.

So when we plough or deep loosen, we get nice green crops initially as the microbes get to work releasing N, but gradually the microbes lock up the manganese that they need to grow, depriving the plant roots, so by the time we get to spring there is not enough to keep the plants going.

Rolling reduces the amount of air in the soil so suppresses the microbes to a more natural level, leaving more manganese for the plants.

We had severe manganese problems before we started direct drilling. We used to dress seed and spray it on regularly but it never seemed to do any good. Rolling, when symptoms had shown up, also seemed pretty futile as we could never reconsolidate our light sands sufficiently to make any real difference.

But then, where we have ploughed, there is the question of why do crops seem to recover from mid April onwards regardless of whether or not we spray on manganese. You can see one huge survivor plant amidst a bald patch where his mates were wiped out earlier by deficiency. Maybe the higher light levels and warmer temperatures make the manganese deficiency less important?

Yes I have wrestled with manganese problems for years and found sprays to be almost useless and rolling of dubious benefit, other than for knocking down stones. Direct drilling has helped us on light land, but we struggle with DD on the heavy land.

I also wonder about the efficacy of Foliar mineral sprays. Spraying onto a waxy leaf upper surface looks futile to me. Add a dewaxer and you risk even more frost burn. Plants take nutrients in through their roots. Only gas exchange occurs through the leaf pores and they are on the underside.

 

[DrWazzock]

Does adding liquid N to the sprayer not cause any scorch when applied through normal nozzles. What Lts/ha do you spray at. Do you have fungicides in the tank as well when you do this?

We apply between 3 and 5 litres of 30% liquid N in 200 litres of water per hectare. Not had a problem with scorch. We use the liquid N instead of stuff like propionic acid as at least the liquid N is beneficial to the plant, not just an acidifier. We have had fungicides in the tank as well. I don't think you will go wrong with up to 5 litres liq N in the tank when spraying at 200 litres per hectare, but just saying what we do, not making a recommendation. I always put the N in first so it's dilute when another chemical hits it.

But as I have said above, I find spraying on minerals a bit of a firefighting exercise.

 

[Flat 10]

Leaves will absorb fertilisers. They may not be 'designed' to but they do. I like the idea of adding liquid fert as an acidifier. N is supposed to help Mn uptake as I understand it anyway. I think rolling works to an extent by encouraging rooting and bringing roots into closer contact with the soil so they can get hold of Mn which is not very mobile. Mn deficiency is not really that relevant for whatever reason after GS 33 or so which is why if your plants survive they then seem to flourish.

 

[CORK]

terrible patches in our silty clay. Reason is very high pH. Patches of winter barley are dead already.

find manganese sulphate much better than liquids. Result shows in 2 days! Getting some liquid manganese sulphate soon which should be handy.

as others say, consolidation very important. We plough, press, sow and roll.

 

[robbie]

We apply between 3 and 5 litres of 30% liquid N in 200 litres of water per hectare. Not had a problem with scorch. We use the liquid N instead of stuff like propionic acid as at least the liquid N is beneficial to the plant, not just an acidifier. We have had fungicides in the tank as well. I don't think you will go wrong with up to 5 litres liq N in the tank when spraying at 200 litres per hectare, but just saying what we do, not making a recommendation. I always put the N in first so it's dilute when another chemical hits it.

But as I have said above, I find spraying on minerals a bit of a firefighting exercise.

Do you buy the liquid N in or do you melt it yourself? I'm interested to try adding the N to improve uptake of the mn,

 

[beltbreaker]

I sprayed 4l/ha on the Manganese Deficient land yesterday, mostly peaty stuff over blue clay. Because it is peat then the rolls are very little use. The thinner sandy soils also need top up of 2-3l at this time. I will generally throw 1l in with each fungicide on susceptible fields. On spring barley combine drilling helps as does a good rolling.

Cheers BB

 

[DrWazzock]

Do you buy the liquid N in or do you melt it yourself? I'm interested to try adding the N to improve uptake of the mn,

I have done both, but liquid is easier out of an IBC with a tap. It's just a bit of leftover liquid fertiliser. I am bit wary of using solid ammonium nitrate as manganese is an oxidising agent of sorts, but I have poured prills into the induction bowl into water without ill effect. I cut the top off a round up drum and fitted a stainless handle so I can scoop 20 kg out of top of a big bag. Using liquid N is easier.

At all times I make sure the nitrate is first into half a tankful of water in the sprayer and well mixed before I add anything else. I don't think it is a problem at these weak rates.

Always see a much better greening effect than with minerals alone. We always add magnesium bittersalz as well. We use manganese sulphate powder.

I am not sure about the regulations on all of this but nobody has stopped me yet.

Still of the opinion that all of this is firefighting and if seedbed and soil is right, it should not be needed.

PS The liquid N has urea and nitrate in it. This might make a difference when compared to using nitrate prills.

 

[DrWazzock]

I sprayed 4l/ha on the Manganese Deficient land yesterday, mostly peaty stuff over blue clay. Because it is peat then the rolls are very little use. The thinner sandy soils also need top up of 2-3l at this time. I will generally throw 1l in with each fungicide on susceptible fields. On spring barley combine drilling helps as does a good rolling.

Cheers BB

Combine drilling helps greatly due to root zone acidification.

 

[DrWazzock]

The other factor at work in manganese uptake is root excretions and microbes hosted by particular crop roots. Neither wheat nor barley roots have any beneficial bacteria to help with manganese uptake, but oat roots do.

 

[robbie]

I have done both, but liquid is easier out of an IBC with a tap. It's just a bit of leftover liquid fertiliser. I am bit wary of using solid ammonium nitrate as manganese is an oxidising agent of sorts, but I have poured prills into the induction bowl into water without ill effect. I cut the top off a round up drum and fitted a stainless handle so I can scoop 20 kg out of top of a big bag. Using liquid N is easier.

At all times I make sure the nitrate is first into half a tankful of water in the sprayer and well mixed before I add anything else. I don't think it is a problem at these weak rates.

Always see a much better greening effect than with minerals alone. We always add magnesium bittersalz as well. We use manganese sulphate powder.

I am not sure about the regulations on all of this but nobody has stopped me yet.

Still of the opinion that all of this is firefighting and if seedbed and soil is right, it should not be needed.

PS The liquid N has urea and nitrate in it. This might make a difference when compared to using nitrate prills.

Am I right in thinking that 5kg Of 34%an added per ha to the sprayer would be roughly the same as 5lt/ha of 30% n that you use?

 

[DrWazzock]

Am I right in thinking that 5kg/ha.Of 34%an added per ha to the sprayer would be roughly the same as 5lt/ha of 30% n that you use?

Near enough for this job. IIRC the 30% liquid N contained 390 kg N per m3.

I was using 200 litres per ha water volume. Can't say whether you might get scorch at lesser water volumes and with different mixes and weather.

Not making recommendations here, just reporting what I have done and seen.