Mark Spencer wanting better assurances for urea stewardship

[DrWazzock]

And certainly no industry body should get involved in policing this. Why should we pay to police ourselves annually when if we don’t, all we’ll get is it tagged on to the 4 yearly visit from the EA anyway.
If the government and consumers want this, let them pay for it. Mark my words well will get no thanks, premium, or favour over imports or any other other benefit from policing of ourselves. Do you think they’ll turn away boat loads of commodities because they are produced with unprotected urea? Not a chance so play the strokers at their own game.

 

[DrWazzock]

There really are some commercially naive twits leading our industry.

 

[Steevo]

And certainly no industry body should get involved in policing this. Why should we pay to police ourselves annually when if we don’t, all we’ll get is it tagged on to the 4 yearly visit from the EA anyway.

According to the course posted above:

"You may be aware that we have just launched our latest classroom course, How to Reduce Ammonia Emissions from Farming, funded and developed in collaboration with AIC, AICC, CLA, NIAB, Red Tractor and the NFU."

Looks like NFU and CLA members have already paid BASIS for the development of the "punishment course".

 

[willyorkshire]

The simple solution is to manufacture fert with inhibitors included. When I posted this on another thread I was told that Foliar urea needs to be inhibitor free. I certainly don't want even more pointless paperwork to prepare for RT. Takes half a day as it is to get up to date for inspection..

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think we should read the original research first, to see if it's objective.
From what this forum has said over the years the research is deeply flawed, and if that is the case then the counter argument is follow the influence and ask why this policy is being followed, and who we should demand resign from RT, the NFU and DEFRA immediately.

The "research" is saying urea is an emitter of ammonia. That's difficult to argue.

The right practice is to apply at the right time when it's cool and when rain is imminent. The date is arbitrary and RT appearance is reverse engineered to keep it relevant.

I want to know how a private company is the only conduit by which this is legally enforcable? Have the governmental lawyers checked this out. Good question for the BFU to ask

 

[SilliamWhale]

The simple solution is to manufacture fert with inhibitors included. When I posted this on another thread I was told that Foliar urea needs to be inhibitor free. I certainly don't want even more pointless paperwork to prepare for RT. Takes half a day as it is to get up to date for inspection..

It is one solution but it is about £50 ton more and also a lot of farmers aren't sure of the harms the inhibitor can do.

So whilst its pretty poor policy based on a date rather than sensible stewardship options I can see it is a compromise. I'm not at all sure what it has to do with Red Tractor

 

[4course]

so where does the urea that is being spread down every road and into the air fit in to this ..ad blue

 

[DrWazzock]

so where does the urea that is being spread down every road and into the air fit in to this ..ad blue

Well that’s different, because
a) restricting it would inconvenience the voting public and they’d faced a backlash like no other.
b) add costs to industries that they deem essential like tourism and travel.

 

[DrWazzock]

At the end of the day, the U.K. trying to faff about with urea restrictions is, looking on a global scale, like trying to keep the sea out with a yard brush, but they seem absolutely full of this kind of industry crippling stuff nowadays while our competitors abroad cash in and laugh in our faces.

 

[Grass And Grain]

So RT members get put on the naughty step if they've applied urea after 31st March, and are only allowed off the step if they pay £195 to go on the BASIS course.

It really can't cost all that much to put this course together can it?

Instead of only naughty farmers been sent on the course, why don't DEFRA offer this best practice course for free to ALL farmers?

If DEFRA want, make it a requirement to have completed the FREE DEFRA COURSE before you can purchase urea. Similar to how you can do the Rodent Bait Course and then are allowed to buy rat poison.

Surely that's more sensible than getting RT to check your feet application records (which may or may not be made up).

The current proposal smacks of NFU wanting RT to be entwined in all aspects of farming. Poor form imho.

First initial thoughts on this subject, but I'm thinking BFU might like a different policy to NFU on this one.

 

[DaveGrohl]

There really are some commercially naive twits leading our industry.

Typo?

 

[DrWazzock]

So RT are turning themselves into DEFRA's "Wagner Mercenaries."

 

[Steevo]

It really can't cost all that much to put this course together can it?

It’s developed and funded by NFU/CLA etc.

It’s also a self-led course so no instructor’s time needed.

Effectively it costs almost nothing to run other than website hosting.

 

[DrWazzock]

Maybe RT could even do a bit for HMRC while they are at it?
After all they have already taken it upon themselves to do the work of EA, HSE and a few other government agency stand ins, AT OUR EXPENSE.
Imagine if the AA membership fee funded speed cameras or lobbying for higher fuel duty.
But somehow our own industry leaders have some kind of fascination with self flagellation.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Link from the image leads to this link which doesn't appear to be quite the same course but still...

BASIS | Exams & Training

www.basis-reg.co.uk

Self-guided online course

The online course is available via BASIS Classroom. The course can be worked through at your own pace with a series of interactive training modules. Work through the learning to suit you and then complete the assessment when you are ready.

The online course cost £195 + VAT per person. Sign up here. If you have a group of more than 10 people, please contact [email protected] to discuss a group discount.

DURATION​

In-person: 1 day Online: Approximately 6 hours. Please note: This is a self-led course and due to the amount of learning content and the number of activities, external links and further resources available, it is expected that the time taken to complete the course will vary depending on the user.

It’s developed and funded by NFU/CLA etc.

It’s also a self-led course so no instructor’s time needed.

Effectively it costs almost nothing to run other than website hosting.

Yea, but you'll get 2x NRoSO points

Yep, costs them nothing to deliver. Surely DEFRA would want to roll it out to all farmers?

 

[Grass And Grain]

If ammonia release is so important, why put a blocking charge of £195 on the best practice advice. Bonkers if you ask me anything.

Seems as though this urea thing has been used to be a money making racket.

 

[Steevo]

Yea, but you'll get 2x NRoSO points

Yep, costs them nothing to deliver. Surely DEFRA would want to roll it out to all farmers?

2 NRoSO points for 6 hours of training….on a course designed and developed with/by BASIS no less

I really despair with how they make the numbers up.

Or is it like Tesco…. 1 point per £100 spent!

 

[Steevo]

If ammonia release is so important, why put a blocking charge of £195 on the best practice advice. Bonkers if you ask me anything.

Seems as though this urea thing has been used to be a money making racket.

Better to save the money from the NFU subscription and put it towards the cost of the course!

 

[Steevo]

Maybe RT could even do a bit for HMRC while they are at it?
After all they have already taken it upon themselves to do the work of EA, HSE and a few other government agency stand ins, AT OUR EXPENSE.
Imagine if the AA membership fee funded speed cameras or lobbying for higher fuel duty.
But somehow our own industry leaders have some kind of fascination with self flagellation.

Perfect analogy!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Better to save the money from the NFU subscription and put it towards the cost of the course!

Already done that bit.

What they're saying is, you've to pay £195 if you want to learn the secrets of how to minimise ammonia emissions. Even though we really want you to reduce ammonia emissions, we're not going to tell you how to do it unless you pay up.

Whatever these people are getting paid..... it's too much!