Michael Gove speech @ OFC - Farming for the Next Generation

[turbo]

Is it me or does it sound like going back to the entry level stewardship but with more money on offer,rather than being capped at £30/ha there will be no limit,the more you do the more you get,personally if I can get the same amount of support as now by doing a bit more for the environment than I will be happy

 

[Fossil]

so to sum it up we will get subs until 2024 and most likely after that too?

You will be capped Boss....

 

[Fossil]

Is it me or does it sound like going back to the entry level stewardship but with more money on offer,rather than being capped at £30/ha there will be no limit,the more you do the more you get,personally if I can get the same amount of support as now by doing a bit more for the environment than I will be happy

That sounds like a sensible system

 

[gone up the hill]

Absolute rot. Public access is not incomparable with livestock farming. The two have existed together since time immemorial.

Not the case

A lot lot more incidents of dog worrying now compared to even 5 years ago!

Ask @General-Lee, his farm are in the stewardship schemes that allow public access, first they had to get rid of their cracking herd of Sim suckler cows due to problems with dog walkers, fast forward to now only three years later they are I believe considering selling their sheep flock due to the land now being un grazable due to problems with dogs, this is ancient parkland, what are they now supposed to due with this land? basically all they will end up doing within a few years is topping the grass off 4/5 times a year if they cant find a way to stop the problems with dogs.

 

[Goweresque]

Absolute rot. Public access is not incomparable with livestock farming. The two have existed together since time immemorial.

However when your medieval peasant got gored to death by a cow, the lord of the manor probably had the victim's wife and children sold into slavery as compensation for the damage to his valuable beast.........I'd be quite happy with a similar (if slightly less draconian) response today, if Mr Gove could oblige with a new law?

 

[yellow belly]

ownership of land is not a requirement for bps
occupation is wheat is required

all the land I farm as tenant or as contractor gets bps but non is owned by the claiments

the big problem with capping is that a number of farms can be farmed by one contractor but not used as one claim for rotational stewardship options that give the biggest gains for the environment and still maintain an efficient farming system

the devil will be in the detail as has been the case for the last 40 years of farming

 

[cowboysupper]

It's hard to argue that a land owner needs any subs

trouble is how do you subsidise a farmer without the cash ending up in the landowners pocket as increased rent or rent equivalent ?

I can see a good case for capping of payments as long as it can be implemented without work arounds by large farm businesses (which is hard !)

BPS is capped at £150k in Northern Ireland. For there to be a work around over here you would need separate financial accounts, separate bank accounts, separate land holdings, separate yards/sheds/handling facilities, separate machinery, separate herds, flocks etc. The authorities investigate all the links.

While a little more awkward I suspect large businesses would end up establishing subsidiary businesses to work around the rules.

We don’t have those large businesses over here but you can be sure there’s some families that have found away round the rules....they always do.

 

[Fossil]

Not the case

A lot lot more incidents of dog worrying now compared to even 5 years ago!

Ask @General-Lee, his farm are in the stewardship schemes that allow public access, first they had to get rid of their cracking herd of Sim suckler cows due to problems with dog walkers, fast forward to now only three years later they are I believe considering selling their sheep flock due to the land now being un grazable due to problems with dogs, this is ancient parkland, what are they now supposed to due with this land? basically all they will end up doing within a few years is topping the grass off 4/5 times a year if they cant find a way to stop the problems with dogs.

Its not access by the public that is the problem. It’s access with dogs. No reason why they couldn’t allow public access but not allow dogs. It’s what they do on a lot of nature reserves

 

[Henarar]

However when your medieval peasant got gored to death by a cow, the lord of the manor probably had the victim's wife and children sold into slavery as compensation for the damage to his valuable beast.........I'd be quite happy with a similar (if slightly less draconian) response today, if Mr Gove could oblige with a new law?

years ago not so many people had bloody dogs, these days they are not even happy with one dog they seem to need more and use farm land as a sh!t house for them

 

[Fossil]

However when your medieval peasant got gored to death by a cow, the lord of the manor probably had the victim's wife and children sold into slavery as compensation for the damage to his valuable beast.........I'd be quite happy with a similar (if slightly less draconian) response today, if Mr Gove could oblige with a new law?

I have managed never to get gored whilst walking. (I have the odd scar from working...)

 

[bobk]

Its not access by the public that is the problem. It’s access with dogs. No reason why they couldn’t allow public access but not allow dogs. It’s what they do on a lot of nature reserves

This is important............ we have no obligation to accept dogs on private land even if there's a public footpath.

 

[Feldspar]

That sounds like a sensible system

Depends though whether the public goods are allowed to be paid a level that is equal to the public value of those goods, or whether they will be pegged at income foregone levels under WTO state aid rules. If the income to be made otherwise from crop growing is not very high, then it could be the income foregone payment might therefore not be very high.

 

[Henarar]

BPS is capped at £150k in Northern Ireland. For there to be a work around over here you would need separate financial accounts, separate bank accounts, separate land holdings, separate yards/sheds/handling facilities, separate machinery, separate herds, flocks etc. The authorities investigate all the links.

While a little more awkward I suspect large businesses would end up establishing subsidiary businesses to work around the rules.

We don’t have those large businesses over here but you can be sure there’s some families that have found away round the rules....they always do.

sounds like a bloody good idea, if folk want to spend the time and money getting round it let them carry on but make it dam hard for them

 

[Steevo]

This is important............ we have no obligation to accept dogs on private land even if there's a public footpath.

Is that written in law somewhere?

Even if it is.....it's rather difficult to enforce when dealing with civil matters and the general public.

 

[tr250]

Have you got a secretary or did you type that long post ? I could never type that much, time wise or ability. Haha

Ha certainly up there for the prize for longest post I recon

 

[7610 super q]

I can't see livestock and dogs being allowed to occupy the same space for much longer. Either dogs will be banned from farmland ( highly unlikely ) , or farmers will be made to fence off ROWs.

 

[Fossil]

This is important............ we have no obligation to accept dogs on private land even if there's a public footpath.

Unfortunately not correct. People can take dogs on footpaths but they must be “under close control”, which unfortunately does not mean a lead.

 

[farmerm]

so to sum it up we will get subs until 2024 and most likely after that too?

I think it would be more correct to sum up as we will get subs until 2024 and from then on it will be payments for "public good" targeted towards those farmers willing to jump though all the hoops and become park rangers not producers?

The goal of increasing agricultural productivity (per person) is easily achieved... simply cut the number of people employed by putting all the smaller, less efficient producers out of business...

When the change comes it will be big, but at least it looks like we all have some time to adapt to this brave new world!

 

[bobk]

Unfortunately not correct. People can take dogs on footpaths but they must be “under close control”, which unfortunately does not mean a lead.

National Trust have kicked them off near here .

 

[Bill the Bass]

Even taking on board all the comments made so far on this thread, I have to say that my opinion of Mr Gove has gone up very dramatically. Not only was it well written and well presented, it makes a lot of sense.

Although long, there is a lot covered. And I would suggest that we all read it twice.

Yes a lot of it will be difficult to implement and no doubt future consultations will change a few things. But I have to say that it is inescapable that if it can be implemented, we will be heading in the right direction. It is also nice that for the first time in a very long time, somebody has taken a very good hard look at what we have now and where we should be heading in the future.

On the whole, I like it and am not at all surprised that Mr Gove was genuinely applauded. IMO, he might well have found his niche and I really hope he gets the chance to make it happen.

No one can deny that the system we have now has many flaws and faults. Tinkering with a broken system is no good. What is needed is a bold and well thought out plan. This seems a good one.

Bring it on!

Gove won't have written it, this type of stuff was being talked about in defra long before he came along, it will have been written by some faceless policy wonk or under secretary. I'm sure he is a compelling speaker though.