Milk from forage

[Jdunn55]

Hi all, I seem to be finally be finding my feet and am wanting to make some improvements going forwards. One particular area being milk from forage.

Was hoping for some tips but also some realistic targets. Would people mind sharing what your own goals are (including cow type and system please) and how you feed?

Don't ask me what it currently is. I have a number in my head as to what I think it is and it's not good enough, it's actually a bit embarrassing imo.

I've already started laying the foundations out and have made what I think is some good quality forage.
First cut is attached below. I have 21 acres of maize in which I think looks OK but I'm no expert, so will have to wait and see.

The grass is clamped and the maize will be pitted on top of the grass.
With this I should have enough to get through winter easily and have left over for next summer should it turn dry.

My plan for the winter was to self feed across the clamp which is 70' wide and there will be a maximum of 95 cows milking until the middle of December when I begin drying off for the spring.
Assuming it grows, they will also have access to approximately 3ishkgdm of forage rape/day for mid november-end of January

What sort of intakes and yield from forage do people think I could achieve with a herd of friesians weighing an average of about 650kg?

Then once grazing again next year what do people aim for when grass is growing properly (in a drought I would be feeding the first cut silage + maize to make up for lack of grass growth)

Any other tips for improving intakes will also be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[DairyNerd]

Hi all, I seem to be finally be finding my feet and am wanting to make some improvements going forwards. One particular area being milk from forage.

Was hoping for some tips but also some realistic targets. Would people mind sharing what your own goals are (including cow type and system please) and how you feed?

Don't ask me what it currently is. I have a number in my head as to what I think it is and it's not good enough, it's actually a bit embarrassing imo.

I've already started laying the foundations out and have made what I think is some good quality forage.
First cut is attached below. I have 21 acres of maize in which I think looks OK but I'm no expert, so will have to wait and see.

The grass is clamped and the maize will be pitted on top of the grass.
With this I should have enough to get through winter easily and have left over for next summer should it turn dry.

My plan for the winter was to self feed across the clamp which is 70' wide and there will be a maximum of 95 cows milking until the middle of December when I begin drying off for the spring.
Assuming it grows, they will also have access to approximately 3ishkgdm of forage rape/day for mid november-end of January

What sort of intakes and yield from forage do people think I could achieve with a herd of friesians weighing an average of about 650kg?

Then once grazing again next year what do people aim for when grass is growing properly (in a drought I would be feeding the first cut silage + maize to make up for lack of grass growth)

Any other tips for improving intakes will also be appreciated.

Thanks

Lots of variables but just a few things:

Work out what it is currently, there are loads of calculators online. You just need your concentrate usage per cow and yield per cow as inputs.

Your first cut is dry (so is mine this year, i left it down too long), intakes will be higher if you target 30% DM.

Mixture of forages will increase intakes but can also complicate and add costs in other ways.

Like all KPI's, dont focus on it in isolation. It is important but if your milk from forage increases but you spend the extra income on machinery/labour to acheive that then there isn't a lot of point.

You only mentioned grazed grass in the last paragraph when it is the cheapest forage on your farm. Maybe you are happy with that side of things but if not then better use of that will be your biggest driver of profitability.

 

[upnortheast]

You only mentioned grazed grass in the last paragraph when it is the cheapest forage on your farm.

Great in a growy summer None existing on a lot of farms this last couple of months.
Always have a plan B

 

[DairyNerd]

Great in a growy summer None existing on a lot of farms this last couple of months.
Always have a plan B

Agree, been the same here, but you still need to maximise the milk produced from grazed grass whatever year it is. I just really mean don't just look at milk from forage alone.

 

[jerseycowsman]

60% yield from forage (aiming for 66), 2 thirds of that from grazed forage. March to mid June calving.
Just come back from Brittany where yield from forage would be significantly higher than that. The most any of them was feeding was under a tonne of concentrates! The local council has cut them back on concentrates feeding and cut N use to under 170 kg ha including dung!

 

[crashbox]

What's your target yield? The higher you go, the less can be done from forage due to concentrates/straights displacing forage.

Just checked my Kingshay costings, last year we did 3400 on 9200, this year 3900 on 8900.

Here, target = 4000 litres + maintenance on 9000 litres.

If we drop yields, would rather see 4500 + maintenance on 8000 litres.

The question to ask is where is the yield "sweet spot" I.e. greatest profit vs input.

Would we be better off targeting 5000 from forage on 6000 litres...?

 

[DairyNerd]

What's your target yield? The higher you go, the less can be done from forage due to concentrates/straights displacing forage.

Just checked my Kingshay costings, last year we did 3400 on 9200, this year 3900 on 8900.

Here, target = 4000 litres + maintenance on 9000 litres.

If we drop yields, would rather see 4500 + maintenance on 8000 litres.

The question to ask is where is the yield "sweet spot" I.e. greatest profit vs input.

Would we be better off targeting 5000 from forage on 6000 litres...?

Would say 5000 from forage on a grazing system like that would be top end, don't doubt there are those doing it but that would mean feeding 400-450kg cake for 6000 litres which is pretty good going.

I guess targets always depend on where you are at the moment. In our first year I am targetting 4000 from forage as a starting point, once i hit that i'll try for more.

 

[More to life]

Really don't get rapped up in this kpi it's ok,worth knowing it's not profit. Forage can be very expensive at the extremes. Best tip maximize grazed grass.

 

[Headless chicken]

I think yield from grazed grass would be a more important figure.
for example do you include maize, wholecrop, beans, peas, lupins in your forage figure? I know some even put brewers in as “forage”

 

[More to life]

I think yield from grazed grass would be a more important figure.
for example do you include maize, wholecrop, beans, peas, lupins in your forage figure? I know some even put brewers in as “forage”

I've seen a farm feeding megalac and soy pass rather than feeding wheat or soya

 

[Jdunn55]

I think yield from grazed grass would be a more important figure.
for example do you include maize, wholecrop, beans, peas, lupins in your forage figure? I know some even put brewers in as “forage”

Personally forage to me is maize, wholecrop, and grass (grazed or ensiled).

Basically anything that doesn't come in a bag or a lorry!

Grazed grass is fine as long as its bloody growing, it's when you're relying on it and it's not doing anything that's the most dissapointing.
I should have much better leys for the cows next year as I have reseeded 48 acres this year and 12 last year. All in gs4 so won't need to worry about fertilise on it either.

 

[crashbox]

Would say 5000 from forage on a grazing system like that would be top end, don't doubt there are those doing it but that would mean feeding 400-450kg cake for 6000 litres which is pretty good going.

I guess targets always depend on where you are at the moment. In our first year I am targetting 4000 from forage as a starting point, once i hit that i'll try for more.

Think this farm is getting up there, over a metre of rainfall a year mind...

 

[Jdunn55]

Thanks everyone interesting replies so far.

Regarding grazed grass I'm hoping I'll have it under much better control next year.
I've either already split or going to split my fields into 2 acre paddocks (excluding 3 big fields at the end of my lane which depending on grass growth get used for silage so will just strip graze them with a backfence).

My plan is to give the cows a fresh paddock every milking when grass is growing well (so 4 acres per day)

When it's wet in the spring /autumn I would just give them a paddock by day and housed by night.
When it's dry and grass growth is poor/non-existent I was thinking of then splitting the paddocks into 1 acres with an electric fence and then giving them a fresh break after milking and then buffer feeding when necessary (not ideal I know but if its needed, it's needed). This would mean I can extend the rotation out to 50 days

If I go into paddocks at 3200 and bring them down to 1600 that would allow around 1600kgdm per ha or a total of 2500kgdm of grazed grass for the herd which equates to 16-17 kg of dm per cow once I'm up to 150 milking (next year I should be around 120 so will have to split 1 paddock/day down to 1 acre to provide 16kgdm

Not sure how that sounds to everyone?

What me can you rely on grass being for the season? 12?

Edit: if grass is 12me, and they're eating 16kg that would give 192mj - 70 for maintenance = 122 ÷ 5.5mj/litre = 22litres?! Surely that can't be doable?

 

[coomoo]

What's your target yield? The higher you go, the less can be done from forage due to concentrates/straights displacing forage.

Just checked my Kingshay costings, last year we did 3400 on 9200, this year 3900 on 8900.

Here, target = 4000 litres + maintenance on 9000 litres.

If we drop yields, would rather see 4500 + maintenance on 8000 litres.

The question to ask is where is the yield "sweet spot" I.e. greatest profit vs input.

Would we be better off targeting 5000 from forage on 6000 litres...?

Costings @Jdunn55 are your biggest marker imo. There’s loads of milk in that silage analysis whichever way you utilise it

 

[Jdunn55]

Costings @Jdunn55 are your biggest marker imo. There’s loads of milk in that silage analysis whichever way you utilise it

How would you use it? When you say costings, could you elaborate on which particular ones I should be looking at more closely?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

This one is relevant here I think. John Roche talking about marginal litres

. Looking at costs and margins is part of this. Self feed idea sounds like a good plan. There are so many hidden cost savings to grazing grass but it is the ability to grow enough and keep it in the right phase so quality remains high - that is key. Not easy this year.

There will be many higher yielding herds working on the 1500litre mark milk from forage which I still think ought to be challenged. I agree with the point above re increased yield CAN mean reduced milk from forage but there are still people grazing 11k litre cows and achieving well over 3000litres. You just have to be careful you aren't feeding concentrate to 'buy' milk from the cow and sell it to the dairy company at cost. That kills cash flows and in a year like this year it isn't helpful. Usually, high finance and expensive facilities and kit are the reason so total output becomes important to spread the litres across. I often wonder if there are lots of herds producing 1000 litres more per cow without any extra profit.

If you are going to look at milk from forage, consider kgMS and total litres as two separate KPIs. Also, depending on what your limiting factor is, look at it from both the 'per cow' point of view and the 'per hectare' point of view.

 

[Jdunn55]

This one is relevant here I think. John Roche talking about marginal litres

. Looking at costs and margins is part of this. Self feed idea sounds like a good plan. There are so many hidden cost savings to grazing grass but it is the ability to grow enough and keep it in the right phase so quality remains high - that is key. Not easy this year.

There will be many higher yielding herds working on the 1500litre mark milk from forage which I still think ought to be challenged. I agree with the point above re increased yield CAN mean reduced milk from forage but there are still people grazing 11k litre cows and achieving well over 3000litres. You just have to be careful you aren't feeding concentrate to 'buy' milk from the cow and sell it to the dairy company at cost. That kills cash flows and in a year like this year it isn't helpful. Usually, high finance and expensive facilities and kit are the reason so total output becomes important to spread the litres across. I often wonder if there are lots of herds producing 1000 litres more per cow without any extra profit.

If you are going to look at milk from forage, consider kgMS and total litres as two separate KPIs. Also, depending on what your limiting factor is, look at it from both the 'per cow' point of view and the 'per hectare' point of view.

Thankyou, I agree with a lot of what you've said there. I really must watch that, I've avoided it up until now because I've been scared he's going to tell me I've done everything wrong

 

[Sandpit Farm]

There are some calcs here:

Block calving key performance indicators | AHDB

The key measures of performance for dairy farmers who block calve in the spring or autumn

ahdb.org.uk

These KPIs are very simplistic though and worth delving deeper. Tracking your silage qualities is worth doing and changing diets to maintain optimal utilisation. Remember you need to ensile the maize properly and use the old stuff first. Simple stuff but you get very little starch availability early on. Targeting 32% DM and 32% Starch.

Also, monitoring your DMIs for your transition cows... don't do an average ideally, split your closeups from your far offs if you can. I reckon getting that transition right is going to be the key to hitting a peak yield at 90-100 days and that will have an indirect bearing on intakes and milk from forage.

 

[Jdunn55]

There are some calcs here:

Block calving key performance indicators | AHDB

The key measures of performance for dairy farmers who block calve in the spring or autumn

ahdb.org.uk

These KPIs are very simplistic though and worth delving deeper. Tracking your silage qualities is worth doing and changing diets to maintain optimal utilisation. Remember you need to ensile the maize properly and use the old stuff first. Simple stuff but you get very little starch availability early on. Targeting 32% DM and 32% Starch.

Also, monitoring your DMIs for your transition cows... don't do an average ideally, split your closeups from your far offs if you can. I reckon getting that transition right is going to be the key to hitting a peak yield at 90-100 days and that will have an indirect bearing on intakes and milk from forage.

I'll have a play with that, thanks.

Definitely agree re transition cows.

I really really struggle calving outside. I find it really difficult, time consuming and just cannot do it. Hoping within the next 2 weeks they'll be back in and will split them into 2 groups again. Probably calve indoors next year. Find it much less stressful personally.

 

[coomoo]

How would you use it? When you say costings, could you elaborate on which particular ones I should be looking at more closely?

I’d use it through my tub as part of the cows tmr and it would work well for me. If your intending using it self feed it’ll work well for you. Monthly costings with any of the consultancy firms would give you numbers to back up your way of feeding. Concentrate use per litre, Feed cost per litre and Margin over purchased feed per litre are a few I focus on being intensive.