Mixed messages from "experts"?

[O'Reilly]

First milk are still very jumpy about orbeseal, we have to have a piece of paper to say that we've been trained in its use, which boils down to being careful to strip it out after calving, for several days. Its sometimes surprising how long after calving you can still find a speck, we found this more so when we used orbeseal with antibiotics, so now we use one or the other. Don't take my word for it though, make your own observation.

 

[Hilly]

There's getting a few less of them over here too. Scotland's largest dairy herd (~2000 cattle) have just given up because they couldn't make it pay.

Family farms with family labour cant be beaten, once you start employing and paying proper wages it get s very expensive.

 

[kp_n_plghng]

You have missed the point. We are talking about selective dry cow therapy. Using an antibiotic with the sealant covers up your bad technique. That will be suddenly exposed when you tube cows unhygienically without the safety net of the antibiotic.

Missed the point? Quite rude that really isn't it. I mention what we'll be doing regards selective dry cow therapy in the future. I was referring to some of the advice given on drying off cows WITH ANTIBIOTIC like in the post you gave earlier by that Andrew chap. All I was saying is that we have never found any of that necessary. I'm just using a technique that works when using antibiotic and sealant. I don't see that as a bad technique.

Nothing to do with mastitis. It's the bacteria in the environment, on the cows teats, the contamination left from the milking machine, contamination for the dirty tubes that have not been stored properly.

I thought poor dry cow therapy leads to mastitis. I think your just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

Good - but I would encourage you to do it on everything with call counts less than 200,000 and no clinical cases. Without any shadow of doubt you will need to vastly improve your drying off practices or you will kill cows.

No I wont be doing that till I have to. I will stick with the current advice I'm getting.
BTW I think its you that's missed the point I took this forum as a friendly place for exchanging ideas and experiences, not for trying to enforce your views on others and going into some war of words. I deliberately avoided replying to you or citing you because I didn't want to get into a big debate on it. Just posting my experience. You really put me off posting here when you dominate these threads and put people down.

 

[More to life]

Missed the point? Quite rude that really isn't it. I mention what we'll be doing regards selective dry cow therapy in the future. I was referring to some of the advice given on drying off cows WITH ANTIBIOTIC like in the post you gave earlier by that Andrew chap. All I was saying is that we have never found any of that necessary. I'm just using a technique that works when using antibiotic and sealant. I don't see that as a bad technique.



I thought poor dry cow therapy leads to mastitis. I think your just arguing for the sake of arguing here.



No I wont be doing that till I have to. I will stick with the current advice I'm getting.
BTW I think its you that's missed the point I took this forum as a friendly place for exchanging ideas and experiences, not for trying to enforce your views on others and going into some war of words. I deliberately avoided replying to you or citing you because I didn't want to get into a big debate on it. Just posting my experience. You really put me off posting here when you dominate these threads and put people down.

Don't take it to hart bovine can be abit blunt but his advice is sound and generates lots of discussion I like it as it makes you think . ( even if only to try to trip him up )

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Don't take it to hart bovine can be abit blunt but his advice is sound and generates lots of discussion I like it as it makes you think . ( even if only to try to trip him up )

Think that's it, he's from the school of thought where being obtuse sticks in your mind a bit longer than the softly, softly approach.

 

[lazy farmer]

have just had back the last NMR results before drying off from those figures I sent off to the vets samples from the millionaires. of the 7, 6 came back as st uberis. is there a specific dry cow tube for this or do they all cover it?
apologises for my ignorance in such matters but I have never bothered to find out before. scary really.

 

[bovine]

I would use Cepravin (or Cephaguard DC) alongside an internal sealant. They will give the best cure rates. If the infection is very long standing then some will fail to cure.

No evidence injecting with anything adds to cure rate.

 

[lazy farmer]

being very honest now I have been lax in our cell management over the last few years my buyer has not had the incentives(penalties) in place to make me do better
however due to a poor December last year and random results at the beginning of this season we have been penalised about 3K this year.
so we want to start next season in good shape currently cell count is130 with the rolling count 160.my question is should I be using the data I have gained on cell counts and strains of mastitis to be drying of high cell count cows early to reduce the cell count and reduce the reservoir of potential infection in the run up to drying off? is st uberis spread more easily in the parlour or out of it ?

 

[bovine]

@lazy farmer too much to tackle properly in a forum. Simply Strep uberis can be either environmental or contagious. You get a clue depending how well cases are curing. Cases that don't often recur suggest environmental sources. Tend to be straw yards, but can be associated with 'camping' at pasture. Contagious strains pass from cow to cow at milking.

We need to know when cases are happening, we need to know where they are coming from and we need cure rates. This really means putting the data into a decent programme. We also need to see if there is a seasonal pattern. Then it is a case of stopping the dripping tap and making changes to either stop the animals becoming infected from the environment or in the milking parlour.

I would strongly recommend you signing up for the DairyCo Mastitis Control Plan.

 

[More to life]

Uberis is my main cause of mastitis the only thing left that seems to make a difference is using 6 tubes at the first treatment plus pen strep also don't be shy to dry the infected quarter off. We did the dairy co plan last year it's made a massive difference teat end damage was the problem now sorted,cell counts are down from 250 to 100-150, cases have fallen by 50% so far

 

[lazy farmer]

looks like im doing the dairy co plan then!
thanks for the advice
lazy

 

[Cowski]

@lazy farmer Adrian Joe on farm would be a better investment if you can get him. A lot of the DairyCo plan is geared to AYR calvers although this depends on the vet you have doing it.

I would also like some justification from @bovine for his recommendation of a 3rd gen Cephalosporin in a thread about reducing antibiotic usage even if it is targeted.

 

[lazy farmer]

yes have been to a meeting run by Adrian and have a good friend who used his services. I will enquire as to the results I will also ask are vet about the suitability of doing the dairy co plan with a block calver. thank you

 

[bovine]

A lot of the DairyCo plan is geared to AYR calvers although this depends on the vet you have doing it.

The plan works for all farms. The information and recommendations are backed by existing and ongoing research. It only works on farms that are prepared to do things differently....

I would also like some justification from @bovine for his recommendation of a 3rd gen Cephalosporin in a thread about reducing antibiotic usage even if it is targeted.

I would prescribe Cepravin (cefalonium) a 1st generation cephalosporin. The use of these drugs has been shown to increase the cure rate of persistent infections during the dry period. Some practices use Cephaguard DC for these cows. That is why I included it for the sake of completeness.

 

[Cowski]

The plan works for all farms. The information and recommendations are backed by existing and ongoing research. It only works on farms that are prepared to do things differently....



I would prescribe Cepravin (cefalonium) a 1st generation cephalosporin. The use of these drugs has been shown to increase the cure rate of persistent infections during the dry period. Some practices use Cephaguard DC for these cows. That is why I included it for the sake of completeness.

Thanks for this. Is there any research on a link between blanket DCT and resistance? I know it seems like common sense but it would be nice to see some data, there must be loads of scope for further research in this area to help us keep the drugs we've got useful for as long as possible.

We've been blanket double tubing everything out of laziness and not wanting to milk record. Going to challenge myself on this though- in your view milk recording seems to be essential for selective DCT to work?

 

[Cowski]

The plan works for all farms. The information and recommendations are backed by existing and ongoing research. It only works on farms that are prepared to do things differently....

Having done the plan with our vet a few years ago, I would re-phrase your statement to say that it requires a vet with the correct experience, attitude, knowledge and relationship with the farmer to make it work. I will dig out our report this week as it will make interesting reading after gathering dust for a while. If anything it should be easier to pick out trends in block calving herds,I do like your 'dripping tap' analogy though.

 

[bovine]

Thanks for this. Is there any research on a link between blanket DCT and resistance?

There is a paper showing that there is an increased risk of clinical mastitis in the new lactation in cows dried off with antibiotics who has a low cell count. It looks like we were stupid to think that the udder was sterile. Some really interesting research coming out just now. I'm not aware of anyone specifically looking it routine dry cow therapy and antimicrobial resistance.

in your view milk recording seems to be essential for selective DCT to work?

Really yes. That seems to be supported by the experts. Selective dry cow therapy is not without risks and to make our decision not to use antibiotics as safe as possible we need good quality information. There are other benefits to managing the herd if you milk record.

Having done the plan with our vet a few years ago, I would re-phrase your statement to say that it requires a vet with the correct experience, attitude, knowledge and relationship with the farmer to make it work.

I agree. I've dragged people along who then won't actually do anything differently when I have identified problems. That is just a waste of everyone's time.

To deliver the plan you need to do 3 days of training in mastitis and how the plan works. There is then an ongoing requirement for update training. There is also various recognised mastitis specialists who will offer advice on problem herds. I think the system is quite robust - there have been a number of the plan delivering vets who have chosen not to keep up with it. I'd like to hope the keener vets who have jumped through the hoops tick most of your requirement boxes!

 

[Sid]

Tubing a non infected cow is akin to the ads on tv that a product kills 99.9% of bacteria. Thats good and bad bacteria we all need the good ones to live just like a cow does in its gut and its udder.

 

[O'Reilly]

The plan works for all farms. The information and recommendations are backed by existing and ongoing research. It only works on farms that are prepared to do things differently....



I would prescribe Cepravin (cefalonium) a 1st generation cephalosporin. The use of these drugs has been shown to increase the cure rate of persistent infections during the dry period. Some practices use Cephaguard DC for these cows. That is why I included it for the sake of completeness.

Regarding the dry cow antibiotics, would a longer dry period improve cure rates, through longer contact between antibiotic and bacteria?
And surely, given Lazy isn't going to get through the mastitis management plan in five minutes, it would be sensible precaution to dry those high cc cows off early anyway?

 

[multi power]

Regarding the dry cow antibiotics, would a longer dry period improve cure rates, through longer contact between antibiotic and bacteria?
And surely, given Lazy isn't going to get through the mastitis management plan in five minutes, it would be sensible precaution to dry those high cc cows off early anyway?

I always find a longer dry period helps high ssc cows