Moisture Retention in DD.

[JNG]

Hi, Question for all you experienced direct drillers. Have you noticed your crops able to hold longer under dry conditions before showing signs of drought. I have read of how undisturbed soil will hold more moisture in spring but in practice do any of you notice much difference. On our gravelly ground retaining moisture is a big problem and the reason we started min tilling 12 years ago and then purchased a claydon 18 mths ago. Crops are beginning to wilt now after 36mm in May and 44mm in April (225mm year to date). Think back to your ploughing days for a comparison??

 

[Clive]

In no till yes - water retention, infiltration and conservation is my number 1 motive as its water that determine my yields most years

 

[doorknob]

Yes. Absolutely positively here. And it does not have to be no-till in my area. My strip till one pass system I used this spring proved it even further. I did not work or disturb the soil below about 3-4" and only in the strips on 15" centers. This has done wonders eliminating irrigation here.

On the other hand, we have some areas that we would prefer the water to leave. So it is sort of a catch 22 situation sometimes.

 

[combineguy]

Hi

Yes crops hold on longer before showing signs of stress due to drought. As if you look down at the slot where the seed is sitting you will see moisture, as the seed is sitting in a humid environment. in comparison to tilled soil there is no barrier to this moisture escaping.

Our dd crops were about 1 - 1.5t/ha better than our traditionally drilled crops, but i don't think that moisture retention could account for all the extra yield.

As the soil structure in improved under direct drilling the soil is able to absorb much more water before it is lost, as can be seen in the following youtube clip

 

[JNG]

Thanks for that, it is all very convincing. Im trying to figure out how much longer or how much gain I will get with a disc drill over min till or strip till. Never have a problem with moisture at planting, no matter how dry the soil there is usually enough moisture here to germinate, humidity I suppose. Its during the growing season April/May/June which it seems are the only dry months in this part of the world!

Avatar WW rolled up in self defence





JB Diego, reacting differently, not rolling up but lower leaving dying off.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Thing with a disc drill is you can put something in front of it if you wish. Cultivator etc.

 

[JD-Kid]

think on a no till /zero till there is a leaking barrel diffrent things water OM fert levels etc if i recall right water under tillage was the bottom hole in the barrel ( keep in mind dryland based system)

can also recall one of the DD sale's men saying each pass tillage removed 1 inch worth of rain fall maybe even higher depending on weather following working .. there is a lot to be said for banking rain BUT needs to be used

 

[JNG]

I am curious mainly about no tilled soils water retention 6-8 months post drilling, ie autumn drilled crops in a dry spring. There is no doubt in a dry drilling season water is lost through cults etc. Its been hot and dry here for a while and our neighbours min tilled s barley showed drought stress 24 hrs before our Claydon drilled s barley, similar land. I wonder how many more days I would have got if no tilled?

 

[dontknowanything]

I think the big gains come from having residue cover rather than the fact you didn't till

 

[Clive]

I am curious mainly about no tilled soils water retention 6-8 months post drilling, ie autumn drilled crops in a dry spring. There is no doubt in a dry drilling season water is lost through cults etc. Its been hot and dry here for a while and our neighbours min tilled s barley showed drought stress 24 hrs before our Claydon drilled s barley, similar land. I wonder how many more days I would have got if no tilled?

I have seen no drought stress yet in my crops this year despite having really quite a dry spring - we have only had 2 meaningful rainfall events since early march and I pretty sure under my old system we would have seen stress on the light land here by now

I have no doubt that I'm already seeing crops hang on longer under notill than I did under mintil

 

[JNG]

I think the big gains come from having residue cover rather than the fact you didn't till

Agreed and certainly the impression I got from reading Dr John Bakers book.. Both in terms of reducing water loss upwards as well as increasing OM.

 

[JNG]

I have seen no drought stress yet in my crops this year despite having really quite a dry spring - we have only had 2 meaningful rainfall events since early march and I pretty sure under my old system we would have seen stress on the light land here by now

I have no doubt that I'm already seeing crops hang on longer under notill than I did under mintil

Good to hear thanks, here is a few more pick from our Diego this evening, whole field obviously not like that but it is all fairly scorched on flag leaf and the bad places getting much larger every day, interesting circle in pic one, prob a bush or tree many years ago with added OM as a result. The laughable thing is Im in Ireland its supposed to be wet here! But on this dry ground we loose yield from lack of water in spring most years. It is a limiting factor for us and why Im on this DD forum. Strip till not made as big a difference as I would have liked so may need to go a step further? I think tough establishment and hard winter not helped, maybe roots not as good at scavanging as they might be!! Rain forecast for tomorrow night, wonder will we actually get it this time?

 

[KJL]

What way are your crops looking now JNG?

 

[JNG]

All looking more ripe than they should be, the above field of Diego aborted some grain sites (see picture below) as a result of this stress, got about an inch soon after above picture taken in early June which gave some relief but not much else up till this week, will,wait to see what harvest brings, ironically we have a bad forecast now its too late for moisture, a recurring theme, dry springs/ wet summers. Very frustrating. Have to say I think the Claydon drilled spring Barley held on very well compared to neighbours min tilled and plough based s barley, possibly 4-5 days before showing same drought effects, which did come eventually.

I was hoping for more of a response to this thread when I posted it from those No tillers in the UK from their experience in 2011 and this year in some regions, so thanks KJL for bringing it up again maybe some more will respond this time, so Ill ask again.

Are people seeing a big difference in their crops holding colour in dry conditions compared to conventionally drilled crops? Can you quantify it in any way, hard to call yield response but maybe extra days before sympthoms occur?

 

[rob1]

Seems that my claydon drilled sb is greener than ploughed or mintilled neighbours at the moment but not sure what varieties they are using, huge cracks in the ground here now, was pulling a few wild oats out the other day and could put my boot down some and at least 2ft 6 deep, never realised my soil could go that deep

 

[Old Spot]

i am being a bit coy about no-till until I get to harvest. But jumping the gun as usual, SB hanging on very well, SOats were doing very well but now showing signs of stress. WW and SW variable santiago looks the best my 5603hr red wheat is dying fast and will be my first to combine. The bit of maize I DDed looks fair but better than much of the conventionally till around here. My soils are silt/clay to clay. I thought I planted my spring crops too early when ground was cold and got patches is some that were very slow away, the later planted looked significantly better, now I am not so sure!

 

[KJL]

Don't think crops have suffered from the drought just as much a bit further north JNG. But the strip tilled stuff seems to stay that bit greener for longer in drought conditions, whether that will translate into yield will remain to be seen.

 

[rob1]

i am being a bit coy about no-till until I get to harvest. But jumping the gun as usual, SB hanging on very well, SOats were doing very well but now showing signs of stress. WW and SW variable santiago looks the best my 5603hr red wheat is dying fast and will be my first to combine. The bit of maize I DDed looks fair but better than much of the conventionally till around here. My soils are silt/clay to clay. I thought I planted my spring crops too early when ground was cold and got patches is some that were very slow away, the later planted looked significantly better, now I am not so sure!

What did you drill the maize with?

 

[BSH]

It looks as if DD does help from what I have seen of drought stressed crops here, but I cant really say it is definitive as drilling dates were different on DD and ploughed Spring barley, but it does look as if the DD crops hung on better. It is certainly something I am hoping to achieve by going to DD, but whether it will be as a consequence of minimal disturbance or whether it will be a consequence of increased OM remains to be seen.