Moving the ground post harvest

[kamloops]

New to no-till and trying to get my head round what people do post harvest.

It feels as if we need to do something like a carrier/terrastar/rake to get a flush of weeds before drilling. What do you do?
If you are going for a low disturbance approach maybe its best to leave the ground altogether and just spray off what comes before drilling? Do many people do nothing at all except spray off?
I'm guessing black grass pressure will probably determine the answer?

 

[Shutesy]

We stubble rake before using our DTS strip-till drill, usually twice and then spray off once after the 2nd pass before drilling. On most of our fields and in a reasonable autumn (not too wet) that seems to do a good job. Some of our soil still hasn't got much structure back after years of ploughing and powerharrowing so if its a bit wet it can be nigh on impossible to get enough tilth at times which is where a bit more of a cultivation than a rake is needed. Can't really justify a Carrier, a new set of discs, a TerraStar or a Cousins Surface type machine so been looking at 2nd hand sets of discs as all we have at the moment is a powerharrow or a Unipress (both have packers so not always ideal in wetter conditions). We do have an ancient pigtail but dropping that in the ground will result in a lot of broken tines pretty quick I think.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I do nothing but I bale everything. Going to lightly cultivate in front of Brassicas into barley because of toxins but otherwise nothing

 

[yellow belly]

do nothing in the autumn unless it is wet enough at moleing depth

many bg seeds left on the surface do not establish a plant due to low germination dry surface those that do get rounduped for winter crops and then the shallow rooted bg secums to the pre emergence

for spring crops a over crop is the best option then glyphosate plant not too early ,spring crops traditionally cultivated biggest issue is too dry a seed bed but no till on heavier land avoids this higher seed rate than on a perfect seed bed but on heavy land a perfect seedbed in a cultivated situation is very rare

imho cultivateing does more harm to the soil organisms leaving the worms and predatory beetles homeless , burns up soil organic matter
we are aiming to keep the old crop root structure in the soil where it allows the new crop roots to follow the same line
once the worm nos have built up there holes go deeper than any subsoiler the soil will be harder and firmer but have a network of pores in it
slugs numbers at kept in check by firmer soil and plenty of preditors

the most important thing is never do anything to the soil when it is too wet including drilling
a late crop is better than one planted when it is too wet

 

[Clive]

New to no-till and trying to get my head round what people do post harvest.

It feels as if we need to do something like a carrier/terrastar/rake to get a flush of weeds before drilling. What do you do?
If you are going for a low disturbance approach maybe its best to leave the ground altogether and just spray off what comes before drilling? Do many people do nothing at all except spray off?
I'm guessing black grass pressure will probably determine the answer?

the idea is do nothing !

I know it doesn't feel right but in a few years it will feel wrong to do anything

there are cases where a very light cultivation is beneficial but don't go down this silly route of multiple rate and light surface passes or you may as well cultivate or even plough !


remember cultivation creates the need for cultivation

 

[kamloops]

Not a fan of a stubble rake then Clive? I can't see that these really do a lot.... unless you are going very regularly to destroy weeds that are just putting a root down.
So you need to leave the land long enough for a weed flush.... When are you drilling? If you drilling in late September you're going to get a lot coming through with the crop?

 

[Clive]

Not a fan of a stubble rake then Clive? I can't see that these really do a lot.... unless you are going very regularly to destroy weeds that are just putting a root down.
So you need to leave the land long enough for a weed flush.... When are you drilling? If you drilling in late September you're going to get a lot coming through with the crop?

rakes - pointless , ever notice how many you see for sale from guys that have zero-tilled for a couple years (and don't seem to sell very easy) if you need a very light pass a rake wont be enough on most soils

we have a carrier with front cross cutter roller, when used it's set very shallow so not disturbing roots of previous crop. use it on a small % of area when there is a agronomic need but try to do as little area as posible

we drill mid sept- late October usually, glyphosate after drilling low disturbance means a lot less seems to come through with the crop

 

[kamloops]

Thanks Clive thats helpful. The carrier seems a good way to go, although the press seems a bit much to me but depends on your soil condition I suppose. Terrarstar probably not enough but never tried one here.

 

[Brisel]

I have a straw rake. 1-2 passes to mainly spread straw residues out so they don't block the tine drill later on. I find the tines loosen the top 1/2 inch too, which helps throw some dust over any seed left on the surface. The second pass is useful for a better chit or to knock off slugs & big osr volunteers. I find it shatters long osr stems too & can nearly save a pass with the slug pelleter if done just before drilling on a hot dry day. Each pass goes a bit deeper than the previous one.

I use a Carrier if it's clay that lies wet to break the surface up & provide a deeper tilth to put the seed into. If I was starting again I'd go with something a little heavier to keep a more even depth & better moisture retention.

None of this is "no till," but it's a big step towards reducing time, hp & less disturbance than max till or ploughing. Clive is right - the aim has to be to do less if you are to break the dormancy of weeds in the soil bank. Time for weed control is what livestock & rotation is meant for.

 

[rob1]

A lot depends on what weeds you have but we tried using the rollers and paddles boards to get a chit, we did parts of fileds and did some twice and some had nothing, no difference between any parts of the fields, can see the argument re slugs and the rake though and most definately for spreading chaff as that has had a big effect on some of our wheat crops in the past, now into our 6/7 harvest year and the land has altered a lot and dont think anything needs doing, weeds on the top either grow or get eaten/rot etc any buried can come up later in the crop

 

[chaffcutter]

You have to take @Brisel’s situation into account though as I understand he is using a Claydon, which moves far more soil than the disc drills and so encourages germination of far more weeds across the whole drilled area ( we used to have a Claydon btw).

 

[Brisel]

Fair point

 

[kamloops]

What about rolling? Do you try to avoid rolling where possible or do you see it as essential for slugs/consolidation and levelling post drilling?

 

[Brisel]

I always roll if possible. My Claydon disturbs a lot of soil so seed to soil contact is a must. For stale seedbeds, I don't bother after raking & my Carrier has a packer on the back so doesn't need a separate pass. An ultra low disturbance drill rarely needs rolling afterwards as the closing press wheel will do that for you.

 

[Feldspar]

Rakes are useless IMO. Only use is after drilling to close slots. Despite being initially not keen on it, I do think the Terrastar is a useful tool in the toolkit. On heavy land you can really struggle to get a decent tilth and slot closure. The Terrastar gives just enough tilth to be able get the seed covered. On 2nd cereals and before spring crops I think it is extremely important. There's still no question in my mind that land that is pulled up with a plough or something like a Trio early which then completely dries still takes more rain and allows later drilling than zero-tilled or scratch tilled crops.

 

[Clive]

What about rolling? Do you try to avoid rolling where possible or do you see it as essential for slugs/consolidation and levelling post drilling?

We don’t roll after 750a but do roll after co6 conversion as it leaves soil looser

 

[Against_the_grain]

There's still no question in my mind that land that is pulled up with a plough or something like a Trio early which then completely dries still takes more rain and allows later drilling than zero-tilled or scratch tilled crops.

Seeing this here this year. Dd land holding more water and sitting wetter but quicker to dry out and less sticky. Water not percolating away as well...

 

[Adeptandy]

Interesting day on the fert spreader yesterday, fields that were subsoiled, light disc and then Vaddy drilled for the last few years traveled ok, the 1 field that was ploughed for Potatoes previous crop to the W Wheat was entertaining and you can definitely see where I went and was ponding in places. Didn't get to the DD fields after 10 years of Grass but lots of ponding on these, will be interesting to see if it travels any better

 

[Flat 10]

Interesting day on the fert spreader yesterday, fields that were subsoiled, light disc and then Vaddy drilled for the last few years traveled ok, the 1 field that was ploughed for Potatoes previous crop to the W Wheat was entertaining and you can definitely see where I went and was ponding in places. Didn't get to the DD fields after 10 years of Grass but lots of ponding on these, will be interesting to see if it travels any better

Bet it will. Can drive through flooded PP here and next door field that's better drained but has plough established WB has loads of very wet spots.

 

[Adeptandy]

Bet it will. Can drive through flooded PP here and next door field that's better drained but has plough established WB has loads of very wet spots.

I hope your right, might find out before the weekend