My first Lambs sold

[FIL46]

I am small scale compaired to some this was my first year at lambing only 39 ewes .Put my first lambs away to mcintosh donald only 1 mile from me killed out well I think, they were 4 months old bread from pure cheviot ewe crossed with char beltex x ram seamed to work well rams were left with nuts on and killed out as follows

43.5kg live weight 18.3kg pay U3L £4.40per Kg £80.52
42.5kg " 18.8kg " U3H £4.40 " £80.46
43Kg " 18.7kg " U3L £4.40 " £82.28
42Kg " 20.2kg " U3L £4.40 " £88.88
44kg " 18kg " U3L £4.40 " £79.20

going to try the next 6 at 45kg live weight and see if I can get the carcase weight up but without killing the grades

 

[cotswoldcs]

That's excellent! I don't know how you managed to get a 42Kg lamb to kill out at over 20Kg but I reckon you've done well.

1,000 lambs @ £82 - tempted to try going full time/ large scale?

 

[beardface]

I'd watch going at 45 or over could get more 3h or even 4's which won't pay aswell as the ones you've already sent , but well done could KO % on those, they all finished on grass?

 

[FIL46]

Thanks I may try 44kg see how that works out, yes just finished on grass weaned 2 weeks ago putting on 1kg a week

 

[spin cycle]

it's all downhill from here m8....seriously though nice going

 

[polk_farmer]

Thanks I may try 44kg see how that works out, yes just finished on grass weaned 2 weeks ago putting on 1kg a week

I'm guessing the beltie x char will throw some char looking things and some beltie things. Char would be fine run to 45kgs. But the beltie ones would be fat as butter if you handled them @ 45kgs. But if they are killed only a mile away a beltie @ 42/43 would kill out pretty well. Could just be me and I'm sure people would disagree. But this time of year a char can just put on frame and keep growing and not ko as well at lower weights like they could a couple months ago

 

[reverand]

well done bud

 

[neilo]

I'm guessing the beltie x char will throw some char looking things and some beltie things. Char would be fine run to 45kgs. But the beltie ones would be fat as butter if you handled them @ 45kgs. But if they are killed only a mile away a beltie @ 42/43 would kill out pretty well. Could just be me and I'm sure people would disagree. But this time of year a char can just put on frame and keep growing and not ko as well at lower weights like they could a couple months ago

The beauty of the Charollais, for me, has always been that they hold flesh well and can be drawn from 32kg to 45kg without going over fat and without going through that mid-season 'store' period that the Texel always does. That's one of the main reasons we started using them across the board 26 years ago, why I chose to go into breeding them, and why they are still my first choice terminal sire.

If your Charollais lambs are going 'framey' in mid-season, despite having decent grass in front of them, then I respectfully suggest that you change where you're getting them from. Unfortunately too many are now chasing size for the sale ring, at the expense of the very qualities we imported the breed for.

Back on topic though ......@FIL46, I'd be wary of taking them much heavier. You are pulling them at 3L & 3H already. Any more weight and you will start getting a few dropping into 4L, and presumably getting penalised heavily for it.

Out of interest, I know you are only travelling a mile to the abattoir, but do you have a decent live market nearby? A 42-44kg lamb by a Beltex X Charollais ram would have been making quite a bit more live recently. Commission and more travelling to pay of course, but it would be interesting to compare nonetheless.

 

[polk_farmer]

The beauty of the Charollais, for me, has always been that they hold flesh well and can be drawn from 32kg to 45kg without going over fat and without going through that mid-season 'store' period that the Texel always does. That's one of the main reasons we started using them across the board 26 years ago, why I chose to go into breeding them, and why they are still my first choice terminal sire.

If your Charollais lambs are going 'framey' in mid-season, despite having decent grass in front of them, then I respectfully suggest that you change where you're getting them from. Unfortunately too many are now chasing size for the sale ring, at the expense of the very qualities we imported the breed for.

Back on topic though ......@FIL46, I'd be wary of taking them much heavier. You are pulling them at 3L & 3H already. Any more weight and you will start getting a few dropping into 4L, and presumably getting penalised heavily for it.

Out of interest, I know you are only travelling a mile to the abattoir, but do you have a decent live market nearby? A 42-44kg lamb by a Beltex X Charollais ram would have been making quite a bit more live recently. Commission and more travelling to pay of course, but it would be interesting to compare nonetheless.

I knew I'd get a bite if I went fishing yea our char ram is probably turning on a spit waiting for a bit of lettuce and a pita bread, and to be devoured by a slobbering drunken mess as we speak

 

[neilo]

I knew I'd get a bite if I went fishing yea our char ram is probably turning on a spit waiting for a bit of lettuce and a pita bread, and to be devoured by a slobbering drunken mess as we speak

Fish all you like, but blame where you bought him, or the guy buying him ultimately, rather than the breed.

Nowt wrong with a good kebab sometimes.

 

[Keepers]

Those are some good KO%'s congrats!

I knew I'd get a bite if I went fishing yea our char ram is probably turning on a spit waiting for a bit of lettuce and a pita bread, and to be devoured by a slobbering drunken mess as we speak

My char rams went the same way, for the same reasons, most likely thrown up in a street somewhere by a drunk student

I did try three from three different breeders, two of which were recorded, came to the conclusion that they just could not well enough on my land, this time of year when my grass is either long brown and rushy or dry and dead they went all legs and store and my land is not changing any time soon, as much as I would like it to

Blame where you bought him, or the guy buying him ultimately, rather than the breed.

 

[FIL46]

Thanks for the positive feed back, I have 6 at 41 kg going to try them at 44/45 and see what happens then I will know what to do with the rest

 

[andybk]

Wouldnt worry about weight , if their finished get them gone , anything over 38kg , wet autumn grass is at best gut fill and price is bound to drop soon when all the ewes come down off the hill for weaning


btw, on other posters i agree with neil , a charollais shouldnt get leggy after the milk goes , i wouldnt entertain keeping any ewe lamb that did that here for future breeding , your buying them to big if they do (longer growth curve) ,
That said , thats why all the recorded rams that were used here are now gone , its because they kept growing and not finishing at the right weights .(with one exception) Stock rams here are only 120kg max weight , best shaped one is 110kg , just weaned his offspring from one batch today many over 60kg no creep what so ever .Size means very little

 

[liammogs]

Wouldnt worry about weight , if their finished get them gone , anything over 38kg , wet autumn grass is at best gut fill and its bound to drop soon when all the ewes come down off the hill for weaning




btw, on other posters i agree with neil , a charollais shouldnt get leggy after the milk goes , i wouldnt entertain keeping any ewe lamb that did that here for future breeding , your buying them to big if they do (longer growth curve) ,
That said , thats why all the recorded rams that were used here are now gone , its because they kept growing and not finishing at the right weights .(with one exception) Stock rams here are only 120kg max weight , best shaped one is 110kg , just weaned his offspring from one batch today many over 60kg no creep what so ever .Size means very little

Couldn't agree more with you!! There is so much variations within breeds now days one bad animal /poor performance can mess up the whole lot!! Not only is the variation within a breed, but buyers are there own worst enemy!! 90% wont even know what there looking for, just go to market saying right i need a char, or i need a beltex and i got £xxx to spend, buy the first one within budget, and off home they go!! To come around the following year im not using one of them again lambs are crap etc!

We used 3 tups beltex tups last year, two rams are staying pefomed as i wanted/intended the other is on the transfer list!!

 

[neilo]

Couldn't agree more with you!! There is so much variations within breeds now days one bad animal /poor performance can mess up the whole lot!! Not only is the variation within a breed, but buyers are there own worst enemy!! 90% wont even know what there looking for, just go to market saying right i need a char, or i need a beltex and i got £xxx to spend, buy the first one within budget, and off home they go!! To come around the following year im not using one of them again lambs are crap etc!

We used 3 tups beltex tups last year, two rams are staying pefomed as i wanted/intended the other is on the transfer list!!

I did the same last year, at the Welshpool Beltex sale. Yearlings were crazy money, for sheep that looked like dropping dead climbing the tailgate to the trailer, so hung back for the ram lambs. Picked out 2 that I thought were the pick of the sale (although the judge didn't think he was in the 'in crowd'). I thought they'd probably be breeder's money, so bought a cheaper one (300gns) first to cover bases. My 2 preferred ones came in and I snapped the first one up at 450gns. If I'd have thought I'd get them for that, I wouldn't have touched the first one.
That better ram has always carried much more flesh over his loin and a better hindquarter with it. They were very different Rams when I bought them and have stayed very different until now, although both small and poor mobility compared to 'proper' sheep. Handling the one, you'd think Beltexs don't flesh well at all, handling the other, you'd think they're OK.
Problem solved though, the poorer one keeled over after a bout of pneumonia a couple of weeks ago.

@andybk , both Rams were unrecorded. The problem has nowt to do with those Rams you bought being recorded, it was the people breeding/recording them. a real shame terminal sires like that are being produced, whatever the breed, and covered by plenty of meal in their rearing system.

 

[andybk]

.

@andybk , both Rams were unrecorded. The problem has nowt to do with those Rams you bought being recorded, it was the people breeding/recording them. a real shame terminal sires like that are being produced, whatever the breed, and covered by plenty of meal in their rearing system.

I beg to differ , all the recorded rams were in contemporary groups , against our own line bred ones , and a couple of un rec fliers , a fairly large proportion of the recorded ones lambs didnt have enough finish at 40kg on old PP , they did at 50kg + and they had slightly better growth rates (bigger lambs )though marginal , if i was finishing on creep or finishing off a fresh clean clover ley fair enough , but my customers buy rams to finish lambs off the crap fescue grass not used for arable , or old pp on a sheep farm , mainly suff mule mothers ,some mashams , plenty of size and growth from mum , so shape and finish is the critical factors here , short sharp growth curve .
As far as i'm concerned its not the recording but the criteria used within the system across the whole breed by signet . coupled with the show ring its a recipe for disaster .

 

[liammogs]

I did the same last year, at the Welshpool Beltex sale. Yearlings were crazy money, for sheep that looked like dropping dead climbing the tailgate to the trailer, so hung back for the ram lambs. Picked out 2 that I thought were the pick of the sale (although the judge didn't think he was in the 'in crowd'). I thought they'd probably be breeder's money, so bought a cheaper one (300gns) first to cover bases. My 2 preferred ones came in and I snapped the first one up at 450gns. If I'd have thought I'd get them for that, I wouldn't have touched the first one.
That better ram has always carried much more flesh over his loin and a better hindquarter with it. They were very different Rams when I bought them and have stayed very different until now, although both small and poor mobility compared to 'proper' sheep. Handling the one, you'd think Beltexs don't flesh well at all, handling the other, you'd think they're OK.

I bought two tups also out of that sale...both happy with there stock to be fair....but i also bought a tup out of nsa builth, (not so happy, but he was cheap) as you say when there full of wool there wasnt much difference! After shearing or if you went to handle them, there was a big difference!! And it comes down to you get what you pay for, all the poor performing lambs are all out of the cheapest tup!! (half the price of the others)

 

[100percent]

Under 50% KO is no use at all up here you would need to try harder, maybe pure beltex? Anything over 42 is down priced with the euro job atm! Be wary of higher weights! If the backs right sell them! To be fair your getting good money and @ 12 wks! Better than arable

 

[Nithsdale]

Under 50% KO is no use at all up here you would need to try harder, maybe pure beltex? Anything over 42 is down priced with the euro job atm! Be wary of higher weights! If the backs right sell them! To be fair your getting good money and @ 12 wks! Better than arable

Glad someone else said it first...

Off grass this time of year, 42 - 43 kg lambs should be KO @ 19 - 20kg, with the best pushing 21kg.

Iv never sent lambs to McIntosh Donald, but I have been led to believe they trimm carcases pretty hard - which could be why the OP KO is slightly lower. But his lambs look well, and good prices were achieved

I also agree with others, and wouldn't take those 41kg's to 44/45kg. Shift them when they hit 42-43kg (which you should expect they will be hitting this week - some should already be 42kg.)

 

[neilo]

I feel a bit better now. I don't sell dw, but was thinking KO% should be higher, particularly if by a Beltex X Charollais ram. Such a cross will give away growth rate, but 'hopefully' improve carcass grade and KO% (or what's the point?).

That said, we don't know if the lambs were weighed full of wet grass?

What ewe breeds are they out of? Presumably just mules, if the Beltex X Charollais ram hasn't thrown any E's from first draw lambs at the higher end of fat spec?