My plan to enter the DD world

[warksfarmer]

Not sure I understand quite what subsoiling at depth means, or is meant to achieve, How deep to you call deep ? To those that claim to have real clay land what is the point of dragging a piece of steel though it at say 10/12 inches, round here you would be in the yellow stuff and that very rarely gets dry enough to "lift" or crack but would compress above and below the tine and leave a slot the shape of the steel youv'e pulled through it, a couple of inches lower and I would call that a mole drain, Lee you then say you will go over with a heavy press to push down what you have just lifted up to allow air in, surely that will stop the air getting in, why do you want air down at 12 ins in clay not much life at that depth in proper clay. Now if you have a pan created by whatever machine and you need to bust that to allow water through wouldnt the front tine on a strip till achieve that, this year there was cracks below rooting depth on my land this year which must have allowed air in and water to drain away.

Tin hat on, fire away

The tine and press is the same machine. Sumo Quatro with the discs removed and legs swapped to shakerator ones. I'm wanting press to leave the ground level so that a no-till disc drill will have an easy life. You'll hardly see where the tine/disc machine has been but its got air in the soil and all I will say on that is that at the moment whilst I am building om levels the soil here does better crop yield wise if we do that pass.

 

[smbflame]

Not sure I understand quite what subsoiling at depth means, or is meant to achieve, How deep to you call deep ? To those that claim to have real clay land what is the point of dragging a piece of steel though it at say 10/12 inches, round here you would be in the yellow stuff and that very rarely gets dry enough to "lift" or crack but would compress above and below the tine and leave a slot the shape of the steel youv'e pulled through it, a couple of inches lower and I would call that a mole drain, Lee you then say you will go over with a heavy press to push down what you have just lifted up to allow air in, surely that will stop the air getting in, why do you want air down at 12 ins in clay not much life at that depth in proper clay. Now if you have a pan created by whatever machine and you need to bust that to allow water through wouldnt the front tine on a strip till achieve that, this year there was cracks below rooting depth on my land this year which must have allowed air in and water to drain away.

Tin hat on, fire away

im wrong to call it a subsoiler i only go 4 to 8 depth winged machine depending on crop, a prolonged dry spell cracks my ground so no need to subsoil plus if you did would have no machine left on most field due to rock ,

 

[rob1]

I can't say as I understand it either!

All I know is that I tried it - and it works!!
I don't run a heavy press over it like Lee - but I do agree with my land needing a 'lift'.

We all have our own little plans and ideas, and whilst I'm getting very good results from using my flatlift as my weapon of choice - I'll keep going.

thats a fair point , I swing from moving over a few years to no movement at all to keep using the claydon and front tine then even to a occasional ploughing to move some of the OM down the profile to increase the depth of my soils. Just trying to understand what works and more importantly why it does or doesnt, and hopefully making a profit on the way

 

[rob1]

im wrong to call it a subsoiler i only go 4 to 8 depth winged machine depending on crop, a prolonged dry spell cracks my ground so no need to subsoil plus if you did would have no machine left on most field due to rock ,

At least thats one problem I dont have rock a long way down here

 

[H.Jackson]

The tine and press is the same machine. Sumo Quatro with the discs removed and legs swapped to shakerator ones. I'm wanting press to leave the ground level so that a no-till disc drill will have an easy life. You'll hardly see where the tine/disc machine has been but its got air in the soil and all I will say on that is that at the moment whilst I am building om levels the soil here does better crop yield wise if we do that pass.

which no till disc drill would you hope to follow a press with? I haven't tried this but would the soil be firm enough to turn a disc with just pressing only say this because the one more unidrill demo I had years ago the discs stalled here would want one drill in the end which can DD our own when wanted and drill on cultivated soil for customers not sold on DD. I know it's been said the 750A will work on consolidated cults but would this mean rolling after the press, not been able to do this for a large area of drilling recently!!!

 

[britt]

Drills with a double disc opener work fine in cultivated ground, the main reason for rolling or allowing the soil to settle before drilling is to stop the depth wheel going too deep on soft soil. Stalling isn't an issue because the only thing the disc really pushes against is the other disc which is also turning. I've been using a Krause for years and only had a problem with disc stall when the ground has been too wet and soil has collected inside the disc if the scraper isn't set perfectly . It's a case of stop and clear it every now and then or pack up.
I would imagine the big disc would work fine for the same reason.
Clive, just out of interest, at what point does a "new member " become a "member" ?

 

[Clive]

Clive, just out of interest, at what point does a "new member " become a "member" ?

Has been asked elsewhere recently and answer is I'm not sure ! It's not a time thing but after a certain number of posts, 25 or 50 maybe but not sure on that number

 

[Davos]

Has been asked elsewhere recently and answer is I'm not sure ! It's not a time thing but after a certain number of posts, 25 or 50 maybe but not sure on that number

Nah! It's when you've taken on Grumpy in an argument and won.

 

[reb1952]

which no till disc drill would you hope to follow a press with? I haven't tried this but would the soil be firm enough to turn a disc with just pressing only say this because the one more unidrill demo I had years ago the discs stalled here would want one drill in the end which can DD our own when wanted and drill on cultivated soil for customers not sold on DD. I know it's been said the 750A will work on consolidated cults but would this mean rolling after the press, not been able to do this for a large area of drilling recently!!!

Was that Moore demo with the smaller plain discs?

I haven't tried them, we rebuilt our old style unidrill with the larger notched version when we got it and they haven't stalled in any conditions so far, including loose cultivated and atrocious (this spring and last autumn).

 

[H.Jackson]

Yes that would was the older type disc not easy to get a demo of the new sumo version dealer only running a dts that may change when their zero till drill gets launched.

 

[SilliamWhale]

i just think farmers need to be flexable whether DD ,min till,plough, etc seasons dictate what course of action , my farm in a dry time (usually when plough wont go in ground,i min till , subsoiler between combi drill one pass works very well but needs to be dry ? you must not carry on regardless if any one system fails , conditions do alter , dont get stuck in rut be realistic , i would love to dd some time in future its not the holy grail lol

But I think you can manage your way towards a system where you can no till every year. It will take a bit of planning and experience to get there. I'd say rather than change if something doesn't work, find out why and manage your system so it does work.

 

[SilliamWhale]

thats a fair point , I swing from moving over a few years to no movement at all to keep using the claydon and front tine then even to a occasional ploughing to move some of the OM down the profile to increase the depth of my soils. Just trying to understand what works and more importantly why it does or doesnt, and hopefully making a profit on the way

That would be nuts. Seriously it is completely pointless.

 

[rob1]

That would be nuts. Seriously it is completely pointless.

Sorry will, was having a weak moment

 

[SilliamWhale]

Sorry will, was having a weak moment

You gotta be like boycott defending a wicket - never, never, never, no, no....

 

[rob1]

You gotta be like boycott defending a wicket - never, never, never, no, no....

Could have with him against the crims last night

 

[JCfarmer]

My one concern with strip til is the open space between the rows allowing blackgrass to flourish on some of our fields. Increasing seedrate on a strip til drill to compete with blackgrass would obviously not make any difference. I like the idea of running a carrier through to get a chit? Could also be used on ploughing before drill heaven forbid.

 

[B&B Pig Man]

My one concern with strip til is the open space between the rows allowing blackgrass to flourish on some of our fields. Increasing seedrate on a strip til drill to compete with blackgrass would obviously not make any difference. I like the idea of running a carrier through to get a chit? Could also be used on ploughing before drill heaven forbid.

Isn't the theory that it is less likely to germinated in undisturbed areas?

I think the key is rotation though.

 

[rob1]

wonder what the difference in total width of soil is moved between the different drills, ie 750 & kuhn disc drills compared to the strip till drills which move more in each row but less rows.