Natural England knows best?

[manhill]

.....and not with one of those fashionable herbal leys.

especially not with bloody yellow rattle parasite.

 

[Steevo]

My old EA warrant card endowed me with significantly stronger powers of entry than the police have. They have to suspect a crime is being committed, I didn't.

To me, at face value, that seems somewhat crazy.....

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The police officer has no ability to question the grounds for the entry. That is, I belive, entirely down to NE under the legislation. If they consider they may face obstruction in entry they have a right in law to require a police officer to attend and enforce that right.

Powers of entry are a very complicated area of law and vary greatly between public bodies. My old EA warrant card endowed me with significantly stronger powers of entry than the police have. They have to suspect a crime is being committed, I didn't.

I don't know the full detail of NE's powers and the constraints on them.

I'm not sure that they know either!!!!

The more times I read the letter and the information in the links within it, the more unclear it becomes.

It tries to imply that they have a right of entry without actually showing that they have.

"If you are not willing to allow us on the land voluntarily then we will look to secure these powers of entry to undertake the visit."
Indicates that they do not have a power of entry.

The code only seems to apply when a power of entry had been established.

 

[Steevo]

I'm not sure that they know either!!!!

The more times I read the letter and the information in the links within it, the more unclear it becomes.

It tries to imply that they have a right of entry without actually showing that they have.

"If you are not willing to allow us on the land voluntarily then we will look to secure these powers of entry to undertake the visit."
Indicates that they do not have a power of entry.

The code only seems to apply when a power of entry had been established.

When I read that bit I'd have wanted to make them exercise those powers rather than give them free reign.

They are clearly taking the easy (and cheaper?) route by not applying for the required powers as they correctly should. That said, it could well be interpreted as an "unhelpful" attitude (by forcing them to do what is only right and proper) as if someone has something to hide, rather than just enforcing the correct boundaries.

The addition of a policeman to make it (morally) more difficult to stand your ground is a tricky one too....not to mention that if they are turning in in 48 hrs from now, it's not much time to be able to contact them and let them know they are not welcome unless they excercise the correct powers required.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

When I read that bit I'd have wanted to make them exercise those powers rather than give them free reign.

They are clearly taking the easy (and cheaper?) route by not applying for the required powers as they correctly should. That said, it could well be interpreted as an "unhelpful" attitude (by forcing them to do what is only right and proper) as if someone has something to hide, rather than just enforcing the correct boundaries.

The addition of a policeman to make it (morally) more difficult to stand your ground is a tricky one too....not to mention that if they are turning in in 48 hrs from now, it's not much time to be able to contact them and let them know they are not welcome unless they excercise the correct powers required.

If I received a letter from NE saying that they suspected I might have breached some rules and could they arrange a convenient time to visit x to check y, I would consider that to be entirely reasonable and would help as required. I would not respond helpfully to receiving a letter such as @ajcc has.
That would be notwithstanding the fact that he has been fined for breaching an order imposed by NE that had no legal basis.
If NE can impose orders that cannot be challenged and access private property with greater powers than the police, this needs to be brought to everyone's attention.

I can understand that it is in the public interest for the EA to have powers to monitor and protect the environment but how can it be justified for NE?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

To me, at face value, that seems somewhat crazy.....

I could exercise my powers to investigate whether there was a flood risk to life or property or a breach of the requirement to be granted permission to do works to a river before doing so. A very wide remit.

In 23 years I only used it once.

 

[Steevo]

I could exercise my powers to investigate whether there was a flood risk to life or property or a breach of the requirement to be granted permission to do works to a river before doing so. A very wide remit.

In 23 years I only used it once.

The EA lost a decent employee when you left.

I wanted to say “one of a small number”….but I’m not sure that would be at all fair. The system is a bigger problem than anything else imo. The jobsworths just pour petrol on that fire.

 

[steveR]

The lesson here is never, ever put any land into stewardship that is or has the remotest possibility of harboring any elements of historical or natural interest. If you must go into stewardship (which I won't be now) make sure it's a sterile, barren, featureless desert and under no circumstances choose options or manage it in a way that may provide habitat for interesting or rare species. Appalling stuff.

Mission accomplished Natural England??

No argument from me...

But I would ask the question, (next time Janet....) will Natural England be handling, monitoring or inspecting any part of the SFI, aka Tier One of ELMS?

We already know they have their feet well and truly in the door with CS and Mid Tier schemes... :-(

 

[Flat 10]

No argument from me...

But I would ask the question, (next time Janet....) will Natural England be handling, monitoring or inspecting any part of the SFI, aka Tier One of ELMS?

We already know they have their feet well and truly in the door with CS and Mid Tier schemes... :-(

Them in combination with Red Tractor will be something to behold

 

[steveR]

Them in combination with Red Tractor will be something to behold

Happily, I will have no truck with either!!

 

[ajcc]

If I received a letter from NE saying that they suspected I might have breached some rules and could they arrange a convenient time to visit x to check y, I would consider that to be entirely reasonable and would help as required. I would not respond helpfully to receiving a letter such as @ajcc has.
That would be notwithstanding the fact that he has been fined for breaching an order imposed by NE that had no legal basis.
If NE can impose orders that cannot be challenged and access private property with greater powers than the police, this needs to be brought to everyone's attention.

I can understand that it is in the public interest for the EA to have powers to monitor and protect the environment but how can it be justified for NE?

In addition let us not forget ”‘Historic England” (we’re the public body who looks after England’s historic environment) and the “National Trust” (who own the land in question) have never in the thirty years I have farmed the land communicated any historic or archaeological concerns....
“Natural England knows best.”

 

[Ffermer Bach]

The lesson here is never, ever put any land into stewardship that is or has the remotest possibility of harboring any elements of historical or natural interest. If you must go into stewardship (which I won't be now) make sure it's a sterile, barren, featureless desert and under no circumstances choose options or manage it in a way that may provide habitat for interesting or rare species. Appalling stuff.

Mission accomplished Natural England??

which is the reason I never joined ~Tir Gofal (the old Welsh higher level scheme).

 

[ajcc]

View attachment 992393

So a locked access and this e-mail sent prior to the meeting (and I went out for the afternoon.)

 

[steveR]

View attachment 992393View attachment 992392So a locked access and this e-mail sent prior to the meeting (and I went out for the afternoon.)

Did she respond... or turn up with a police officer anyway, and make an entry?

I did like the last sentence....

 

[ajcc]

Did she respond... or turn up with a police officer anyway, and make an entry?

I did like the last sentence....

Natural England above the law......

 

[steveR]

So they entered a place of work after being told NOT to enter....

Blighty turning into a Police State...

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Could you please post a picture of the letter of the 'regulation 30 authorisation', as the previous letter certainly insinuated that they had not applied for such an authorisation.

 

[steveR]

Could you please post a picture of the letter of the 'regulation 30 authorisation', as the previous letter certainly insinuated that they had not applied for such an authorisation.

I tried, and could not find it....

 

[Highland Mule]

NatureScot issued beaver-killing licences incorrectly

Rewilding charity Trees for Life win a court battle over how the government agency issued licences to cull beavers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not just Natural England that make mistakes, it seems.

 

[Oliveau]

I could exercise my powers to investigate whether there was a flood risk to life or property or a breach of the requirement to be granted permission to do works to a river before doing so. A very wide remit.

In 23 years I only used it once.

In my time as a water undertaker surveyor I also had Power of Entry under Water Industries Act 1991 but only ever had to use it once, (nearly) and in fact the issue was resolved by the land owners agent. A strange case due to reclusive nature of land owner and her equally reclusive daughter.
But the issue really relates to the water industry needing POE rights to protect public health, whereas I really cannot see how NE can use the same argument. Weirds with beards in my opinion.