Natural England knows best?

[melted welly]

What exactly is natural England’s goal in all of this?

not read the whole thread, but what a fecking waste of time and money and what a horrible bunch of people.

 

[An Gof]

ELMS, Just say No!

This ….. with what is currently on offer you would have to be slightly touched to even contemplate entering an Elms scheme.

 

[Goweresque]

What exactly is natural England’s goal in all of this?

To justify their own existence, naturally. Thats the aim of every bureaucrat - to make sure their salaries keep getting paid above all else. Anything else they achieve towards the nominal goal of their organisation is secondary to the primary aim of continued existence.

 

[teslacoils]

What exactly is natural England’s goal in all of this?

not read the whole thread, but what a fecking waste of time and money and what a horrible bunch of people.

Employ many "beta" graduates. Stamp feet and send angry letters. I expect they were all bullied at school.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

According to the link;

You must use this guidance to follow EIA regulations if you want to change rural land use. Failure to follow EIA regulations means you could:

• be prosecuted
• be fined up to £5,000
• have to restore land to its previous condition

EIA regulations are part of cross compliance, the rules you must follow if you have land in:

• the Basic Payment Scheme
• Countryside Stewardship
• Environmental Stewardship

Failure to follow EIA regulations could affect your payments.

This gives the firm impression that the maximum fine is £5k and some of your payments.

How come @ajcc was ordered to pay more than £30k in fines and costs?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I would refuse entry because they have not specified what breach they think has occurred.
They are proposing a 'fishing' exercise which they do not have any authority to carry out.

I would put it in writing and state that you will gladly assist a visit when they have made it clear [in writing] what they will be checking and why.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Shouldn't this all have been settled 9 years ago by sitting round a table and discussing the future of the land in question? The approach NE have taken here, whilst possibly quite legal, has done incredible damage to the relationship between them and farmers.

They may yet regret having taken this route.......

 

[ajcc]

Thanks for the support and interest it means a lot....to my long suffering wife as well as myself.
I do glean and gain much from others observations.

 

[exmoor dave]

Thanks for the support and interest it means a lot....to my long suffering wife as well as myself.
I do glean and gain much from others observations.

Is this latest letter, a separate/different issue than the court case?

If so, looks abit like a case of 'your card being marked'

 

[Farmer 83563]

Is this latest letter, a separate/different issue than the court case?

If so, looks abit like a case of 'your card being marked'

Have you done an FOI request to NE. Wonder if National Trust pulling the strings?

 

[Flat 10]

Doesn’t it say if you refuse entry they will get a court order to permit entry? I would say best they get the order before you permit entry as they have wasted enough of your time so you are not going to cooperate. I like the idea of having your own agent on site.

 

[Flat 10]

Also film everything?

 

[Bongodog]

I was always under the impression that police only get involved in anything if they have "reason to suspect that an offence will or is taking place" on that basis you need to ask what story NE have spun to them. The whole thing stinks of intimidation and pettiness on their part. Get everyone you can think of, MP etc involved. Do not be alone on day, record their every movement on video openly in front of them.

 

[Farmer 83563]

Natural England has responsibility for sites of scientific interest, environmental damage regulations, heather and grass burning, agricultural work affecting uncultivated land or semi-natural areas. Historic England do historic stuff. Does Monday's visit relate to Envronmental Impact Assessment (EIA) uncultivated land or historic environment? If the latter I'm not sure if they are right to be using EIA regs to investigate? Just my thoughts so best check with someone who knows. Oh, and tell them to be careful not to disturb any historics if they are digging soil pits otherwise some pansy drag them through the courts at huge cost for no real benefit!

 

[steveR]

Shouldn't this all have been settled 9 years ago by sitting round a table and discussing the future of the land in question? The approach NE have taken here, whilst possibly quite legal, has done incredible damage to the relationship between them and farmers.

They may yet regret having taken this route.......

I suspect that if the ramifications of prosecuting @ajcc were ever really considered, which I doubt, I suspect that the matter would get such widespread discussions and criticism was not something TPTB in Natural England would have thought about. Or even cared about....

This criticism has strayed away from an article in the local paper or a complaint to the local NFU rep. Use of social media has made the actions and behaviour of NE obvious and transparent, and coupled with the numerous other reported incidents of poor and crass behaviour that so many have experienced, we now all know Natural England cannot be trusted, from Juniper down.

 

[steveR]

I was always under the impression that police only get involved in anything if they have "reason to suspect that an offence will or is taking place" on that basis you need to ask what story NE have spun to them. The whole thing stinks of intimidation and pettiness on their part. Get everyone you can think of, MP etc involved. Do not be alone on day, record their every movement on video openly in front of them.

This!

Same with all RPA/NE Inspections, monitor and record all actions. An independent witness to accompany you would also be useful, possibly the Constable who will also be wasting a couple of hours??

 

[GeorgeK]

The lesson here is never, ever put any land into stewardship that is or has the remotest possibility of harboring any elements of historical or natural interest. If you must go into stewardship (which I won't be now) make sure it's a sterile, barren, featureless desert and under no circumstances choose options or manage it in a way that may provide habitat for interesting or rare species. Appalling stuff.

Mission accomplished Natural England??

 

[Jackov Altraids]

This!

Same with all RPA/NE Inspections, monitor and record all actions. An independent witness to accompany you would also be useful, possibly the Constable who will also be wasting a couple of hours??

A police officer should have a good understanding of how he cannot act on a spurious " I think you may be breaking the law" but can only investigate with respect to a specific allegation.
"Natural England is of the opinion that a breach of the Environmental Impact Assessment (Agriculture) (England) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (as amended) (“the Regulations”) is occurring" is spurious.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

A police officer should have a good understanding of how he cannot act on a spurious " I think you may be breaking the law" but can only investigate with respect to a specific allegation.
"Natural England is of the opinion that a breach of the Environmental Impact Assessment (Agriculture) (England) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (as amended) (“the Regulations”) is occurring" is spurious.

The police officer has no ability to question the grounds for the entry. That is, I belive, entirely down to NE under the legislation. If they consider they may face obstruction in entry they have a right in law to require a police officer to attend and enforce that right.

Powers of entry are a very complicated area of law and vary greatly between public bodies. My old EA warrant card endowed me with significantly stronger powers of entry than the police have. They have to suspect a crime is being committed, I didn't.

I don't know the full detail of NE's powers and the constraints on them.

 

[Bongodog]

They may be good at keeping things hot but are they any good at keeping drinks cool in the summer?
How does the flask know or is there some sort of switch?

A police officer should have a good understanding of how he cannot act on a spurious " I think you may be breaking the law" but can only investigate with respect to a specific allegation.
"Natural England is of the opinion that a breach of the Environmental Impact Assessment (Agriculture) (England) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (as amended) (“the Regulations”) is occurring" is spurious.

Exactly, EIA regulation breaches are a civil offence not criminal and thus not a police matter