Net zero emissions

Discussion in 'Brexit & Politics' started by Danllan, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Well done, that's the anti-London bit done perfectly, entirely correct from start to finish. But it changes nothing; there's still too much waste and pollution the way things are. So... give us a plausible, rational and workable solution.
     
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  2. Scribus

    Scribus Member

    Location:
    Central Atlantic
    Follow the money, as always.
     
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  3. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    I just don't get it.

    How can anyone have a sane discussion about waste when we all know over the past few decades the government has been paid by tax payers to recycle and deal with waste .. and it's ended up in the Oceans and being burnt in far away lands ?

    The first step is a realisation that we are being lied to.

    When that's cleared up as to how and why .. we can then move forward.

    Offshore wind energy is 2x more expensive as onshore .. but Lord Deben - John Gummer - got ££££s to create Offshore windfarms rather than the general public being allowed to create their own power.
     
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  4. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Well, then forget a discussion and set out a manifesto. Clearly there can and will be no actual progress if one of the two key players - these being the people and the government - is not participating, but it would be good to know the details of an infallible plan that will work, if both pull their weight. (y)
     
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  5. br jones

    br jones Member

    Ooh look ,there's a unicorn
     
  6. Pond digger

    Pond digger Member

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Optimistic as ever.:ROFLMAO:

    I do agree though.:(
     
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  7. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Yes, but... China has an overarching aim to become the global economic power and everything else is secondary to that.
     
  8. DrWazzock

    DrWazzock Member

    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Everybody could take small measures that would make a big difference.

    Careful and considerate use of transport and resources is the overarching requirement.

    But every planning and organisational policy goes against this.

    From closure of local abbatoirs to "parental choice" in education and schooling, long distance travel is built into every part of life.

    A lot of the blame lies with corporations and government. We always managed with brown paper bags in town for fruit and veg, until somebody decided we needed tomatoes from Tunisia.

    If the government was serious about the environment it would ban plastic packaging of food.
     
  9. Henarar

    Henarar Member

    Location:
    ZumerZet Somerset
    Yep but it's no good to just simply export it is it
    The UK just as well cause some pollution as simply paying for pollution as we are now
     
  10. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    Quite .. so all this pussy footing about by the UK Elite is window dressing.

    I don't buy it .. if enough don't buy it then those that instigated it will lose power.

    Case in point: Work in progress.
     
  11. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Entirely correct. The only bug*er is that, as has been pointed out elsewhere, no matter what local difference we make (and it all helps, particularly in re' plastics), if China and the US aren't committed to cleaning up then, globally, it's about as useful as pis*sing in the Sahara.. :(

    Or, even better, don't export it by solving the problem here. (y) And that isn't intended to be 'smart', but the genuine solution; 'reduce, reuse & recycle' is a now a cliché, but add on 'remove' and it does make sense.

    Yet it has to start somewhere...
     
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  12. You can maybe see on this thread who has kids?
     
  13. Henarar

    Henarar Member

    Location:
    ZumerZet Somerset
    They continue to export the problem though that is the problem
    What if when the uk is net zero we said that there was to be no imports from countries that are not, now that would be interesting
     
  14. Foxhollow

    Foxhollow Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    I accept there is an issue and that we as a developed nation and a historical legacy of pollution we have to have a strategy for going forward. However the target of net zero carbon emissions by 2050 is in my eyes unobtainable. We have 30 years in which to totally refurbish the current housing stock to suit the new way we will have to heat our homes. If I read the press statement correctly there will be no more internal combustion engines which will include finding value for money solutions to take all ICE cars, van lorries off the road, replace every ship. What about planes if we say zero emissions surely that includes jet engines.
    When it is individuals who will have to pay I do not believe it is achievable. Just look at todays housing market the majority of people have minimum equity in their houses and are mortgaged up to the hilt and then we will ask them to put in a new heating system and all the associated works that will go with that.
    Reading the document made me laugh when it said that the way for reducing the use of natural gas as a heating medium for house will be to use hydrogen. So in a 30 year period they want all homes to have been transferred to hydrogen when this technology has not been proven in terms of cost, safety in the home and ability to manufacture hydrogen in a zero emission way. I really do not think these policy makers have truly grasped how long it takes to develop, design, build and put into commercial production any large scale project and that is even without the planning aspects across the entire country.
    Just look at the broadband rollout we still cannot cover the country with superfast broadband and that has a viable business case and is "only putting into place additional poles and wires" across the country. We still cannot develop a power generating strategy and implementation programme taking into account todays technology and current demands never mind future demands in 30 years.
     
  15. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    It is very easy for some posters who blame government and the super rich, for all the sins known to mankind.
    However it is taxpayers and their nimby attitude which has meant in the UK we have not got anything done in the UK for the last 50 years.
    You are right sending our waste to China is ridiculous if only because we are paying them to take it and it could be a valuable energy resource, except not in my back yard let it be disposed of 10,000 miles away fine rather than burnt in our local power station, as that will cause global warming Doh!
    Eat food in season, but it is not the government , nor the super rich forcing us to go to our local supermarket and bring home tasteless chilean strawberries for Christmas dinner, that is You, I and Joe public who insist that they must have these tasty morsels or we will go to the supermarket down the road for the same, and while we are here please can our veg come washed, chopped and wrapped in plastic even though we know it will keep for b'all time as a result, and most likely will end up in the bin.
    You want extreme liberal ( in a conservative sense) values and complain about the result, you cannot have it both ways, either nanny state dictates as in Cuba your weekly allowance and be thankful for what you get, or we have this free for all so beloved by JRM and his cohort.
    We will have to find a way to reduce the increasing levels of CO2 by some means, we cannot keep increasing, without nature kicking back somehow.
     
  16. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Maybe, but I'm pretty sure that I'd have been writing the same thing even before I had mine. And, rather worryingly, there are a hell of a lot of people with children who still couldn't care less... :banghead:

    Interesting it would be, but extraordinarily unlikely - remember the US and China... However, change the word 'countries' to 'companies' and it could well be a good thing and see some decent change take place.
     
  17. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    Yes .. in China & India.

    The UK just needs to concentrate on jailing those who have charged members of the public for "Recycling" and other "Environmental" measures but instead delivered MORE pollution.
     
  18. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    It's not possible to "Manufacture" Hydrogen in a zero emissions way .. Hydrogen is an extremely volatile gas which is unable to be stored without leaking - due to the atoms being smaller than any other - and because Hydrogen is the lightest gas .. when leaked it leaves the Earth's atmosphere at about 2,000 mph into Space.

    Probably the most stupid fuel possible to use enmasse.
     
  19. Danllan

    Danllan Member

    Location:
    Sir Gar / Carms
    Great, except for the obvious fact it's wrong. If others don't do it first, then China - I note you have not mentioned the US...? - will have been gifted the rather brilliant come back of 'But you don't...'

    Hydrogen can be stored elementally, but it is far easier to store in compound form - my guess is that this will be the way forward until technology makes better materials and methods viable. Water is an obvious one and there are many others more appropriate to end-use. But I think it right to note: a) fuel cell derived hydrogen fuel would only be stored for a very short period, often for near-immediate use; and b) that the best shroud to contain hydrogen is thought, by many, to be more hydrogen (concentric flask storage). Effectively reducing escape to zero, since the outermost flask 'leaks' directly to combustion.

    Not sure you're right about the speed of atmospheric escape:

    https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...ydrogen-gas-exist-in-earths-atmosphere/302760
     
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  20. Scribus

    Scribus Member

    Location:
    Central Atlantic
    So what would you consider an appropriate level of coercion in the supposedly free and democratic west and what strength of evidence would you require to justify any measures you would be comfortable with?
     

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