New Defender Commercial

[Cowabunga]

90HT is more comparable in price with a double cab pickup, I have had mine two weeks now and put just over 1000 miles on it and love it, not even comparable to a pickup for driving!

The only thing with the 90 is you don't get air suspension and load space is limited, but unlike a pickup, the load space is much more useful as everything you put in there stays dry and isn't susceptible to being stolen!

It's dinky in comparison. There's nearly as much room in the second row of the pickup for secure storage as there is in the cargo area of the 90 plus the 5 0r 6 foot bed is available, with or without a canopy or sliding cover. There's no comparison, that's for sure.

 

[Cowabunga]

Top gear the other night said they had 85 computers on board so sadly can’t see them any good for farming long term. New land cruiser lwb commercial auto 32k. Tested and proven and I suspect will be going when the Land Rover is in the dealers with the laptop plugged in ( and I speak as a discovery 5 owner)

Top gear don't know their arses from their elbows. It has very few actual computers. What it does have is a simplified wiring system utilising a ring of wires called a CAN-Bus network that cuts down on the actual wiring needed by around two-thirds. These communicate digitally between the ECU or several ECU's and various components like individual windows, door locks and switches and all the other gadgets expected today, through the same wire. So no need for a specific wire to be routed between, say, a particular switch and the motor in a back door. The signal from the switch module is coded and travels through the ring main and is recognised by the actuator in the relevant door, as an example.

The way that some fools reckon it has up to 85 computers is to count every sending and every receiving module on every component as a 'computer'. Well technically I suppose it is a processing unit but not one that makes complex computations. If you count these as 'computers, then you should also call your cordless phone, your TV remote control, anything that communicates with anything else whether wired or wirelessly, 'computers'. Even a desktop computer's external hard drive or speakers or DVD drive would be classed as 'computers' in their own right. In this day and age that is patently ridiculous.

 

[mf7480]

I may be wrong, I assumed the £60k price tag was plus VAT being a commercial, but perhaps it’s inclusive? It’s certainly not clear

 

[Cowabunga]

I may be wrong, I assumed the £60k price tag was plus VAT being a commercial, but perhaps it’s inclusive? It’s certainly not clear

I do believe that JLR marketing has no idea today that commercial vehicles are generally, almost universally quoted '+VAT'. They just haven't got that kind of knowledge any longer.

I would hope that their OTR price does include VAT [which should be listed separately].

The very basic models are not too terribly priced. It's the higher trims and extras you would expect to be standard that jack the prices skywards.

 

[hally]

Top gear don't know their arses from their elbows. It has very few actual computers. What it does have is a simplified wiring system utilising a ring of wires called a CAN-Bus network that cuts down on the actual wiring needed by around two-thirds. These communicate digitally between the ECU or several ECU's and various components like individual windows, door locks and switches and all the other gadgets expected today, through the same wire. So no need for a specific wire to be routed between, say, a particular switch and the motor in a back door. The signal from the switch module is coded and travels through the ring main and is recognised by the actuator in the relevant door, as an example.

The way that some fools reckon it has up to 85 computers is to count every sending and every receiving module on every component as a 'computer'. Well technically I suppose it is a processing unit but not one that makes complex computations. If you count these as 'computers, then you should also call your cordless phone, your TV remote control, anything that communicates with anything else whether wired or wirelessly, 'computers'. Even a desktop computer's external hard drive or speakers or DVD drive would be classed as 'computers' in their own right. In this day and age that is patently ridiculous.

I think technically they did say ecu’s in the commentary, but this doesn’t detract from the complexity of this machine which is unproven in real world situations, as are all new car designs. They might have it spot on, but the opinion of land rovers reliability on this forum alone would suggest this may not be the case.
The point I was getting at was that high end vehicles in terms of complexity are great as cars but when you get to harsher conditions such as is the norm for a farm vehicle, such as heavy towing, frequent stop starts and heavy loads on board etc, how will it perform past its warranty period for example?

 

[ollie989898]

Yes, I would still be in the market. Used to change every three years when the warranty was up. When you have spent your whole life with a LR as the farm vehicle you become a bit attached to them and rather sentimental. I’m a “big chap” but still manage to shoe horn myself in ...... must be the practice I had with the Lotus Elise when the roof was on

I really do not want a twin cab pickup or anything too long. I guess my ideal replacement would be a short wheelbase Toyota Landcruiser 70 series models that they do in Oz

Import a LandCruiser.

 

[hally]

I may be wrong, I assumed the £60k price tag was plus VAT being a commercial, but perhaps it’s inclusive? It’s certainly not clear

I have just priced up a basic 110 with metallic, tow bar, and one or two extras to match a land cruiser and it’s 43k plus vat, basically 11k more but of course it is better specced in terms of engine , gearbox and one or two other things so maybe not a mile wrong?

 

[mf7480]

I have just priced up a basic 110 with metallic, tow bar, and one or two extras to match a land cruiser and it’s 43k plus vat, basically 11k more but of course it is better specced in terms of engine , gearbox and one or two other things so maybe not a mile wrong?

That certainly seems more like it. I need to get to a showroom now they’ve re-opened and see what’s what.

 

[Bloders]

I think technically they did say ecu’s in the commentary, but this doesn’t detract from the complexity of this machine which is unproven in real world situations, as are all new car designs. They might have it spot on, but the opinion of land rovers reliability on this forum alone would suggest this may not be the case.
The point I was getting at was that high end vehicles in terms of complexity are great as cars but when you get to harsher conditions such as is the norm for a farm vehicle, such as heavy towing, frequent stop starts and heavy loads on board etc, how will it perform past its warranty period for example?

I expect all vehicles have a similar number of ECUs or Computers these days.
Essentially, all vehicles work pretty mucht he same way now. A ring main (CAN Bus) and then the intelligent actuators spliced into it. So if you are comparing cars with similar functionality, then the number of modules will be near enough the same.
Its just the same on tractors and other industrical equipment.

Top gear are, IMO, relatively mindless and ignorant to actual engineering and the needs of the everyday motorist. Its not a motoring show, its a TV show about cars - a big difference.

 

[Cowabunga]

I think technically they did say ecu’s in the commentary, but this doesn’t detract from the complexity of this machine which is unproven in real world situations, as are all new car designs. They might have it spot on, but the opinion of land rovers reliability on this forum alone would suggest this may not be the case.
The point I was getting at was that high end vehicles in terms of complexity are great as cars but when you get to harsher conditions such as is the norm for a farm vehicle, such as heavy towing, frequent stop starts and heavy loads on board etc, how will it perform past its warranty period for example?

The ZF 8 speed auto is very well proven. I'd be more concerned with teething troubles with the Pivi-Pro infotainment and control system software than anything else.

 

[egbert]

Yes, I would still be in the market. Used to change every three years when the warranty was up. When you have spent your whole life with a LR as the farm vehicle you become a bit attached to them and rather sentimental. I’m a “big chap” but still manage to shoe horn myself in ...... must be the practice I had with the Lotus Elise when the roof was on

I really do not want a twin cab pickup or anything too long. I guess my ideal replacement would be a short wheelbase Toyota Landcruiser 70 series models that they do in Oz

I bet we're not the only ones.
HCPU has been the weapon of choice in my circles for an age.
And instead of ironing wrinkles, the muppets have chucked it out and replaced it with a 4x4 techno designer trainer.
I'm out.

(have had similar thoughts about Toyotas I saw in oz, and on every dusty war torn 3rd world TV news flash....albeit without the mounted 'belt fed'.)

 

[Robt]

Am I missing something? I’ve specced a Defender commercial S with the stuff you really want in a car, and to match the spec of a Wildtrack Ranger. Tow bar, metallic paint, mudflaps, 3 seats in the front, alloy wheels. And that’s about it, not gone too mad with it. It’s come out at £62,000+VAT! I’m really keen for one so was hoping there would be some sort of 25% discount available but no, there’s a few hundred quid at most. No NFU/ Anglia farmers/ dealer discounts to be had.

Are they completely bonkers? I could literally buy TWO Ford Ranger Wildtracks with NFU discount with a 10 speed box, all the spec to match, AND have £4,000 change. I’m sure it’s a more advanced vehicle but I cannot see where they’re coming from with these prices. They must be aiming them more at London Plumbers than us humble farmers.

EDIT the 62k figure may include VAT- the website is unclear

They don’t want Farmers to buy them. They don’t need to give silly Nfu discount. Good luck to then if they can sell them.

 

[mf7480]

They don’t want Farmers to buy them. They don’t need to give silly Nfu discount. Good luck to then if they can sell them.

I guess you’re right. When I can have a brand new Ranger Wildtrack for £21.5k by the time the super deduction has been used, I can’t see that being beaten. Different horses for different courses I suppose.

 

[goodevans]

I guess you’re right. When I can have a brand new Ranger Wildtrack for £21.5k by the time the super deduction has been used, I can’t see that being beaten. Different horses for different courses I suppose.

The base model is surely aimed at farmers as a towing vehicle because not many other customers would want such a model,think of all those new Ivors been towed to the breeding ewe sales in the autumn, and I can think of a few store cattle sellers looking at the brochures at the moment come to think of it
I meant to quote Robt

 

[hally]

I guess you’re right. When I can have a brand new Ranger Wildtrack for £21.5k by the time the super deduction has been used, I can’t see that being beaten. Different horses for different courses I suppose.

I didn’t realise they were that cheap

 

[spark plug]

I bet they have forgotten one very important detail....

Is there any ware for the sheep pee to run out

 

[Dead Rabbits]

There is a YouTube channel called “The fast lane”. They have had an interesting time trying to buy and test a defender. They bought the cheapest one they could and it was still $55k or so. Can get a lot in the US for 55k.

I’m uncertain what the appeal of these things is. Why pay money for something that seems pretty well proven to be unreliable and have a high ownership cost?

 

[suffolksmallholder]

If I had a sum of money like that mentioned I'd buy an old LR 110 HCPU and send it to one of the many specialist LR building companies and have a superb work vehicle created just for me. Simples. The parts are all available for sensible money. Starting with a nice new galvanised Richards Chassis. I'd probably opt for an auto box.
Ten years of grin factor. Then I'd buy an Ineos Bombardier as within this time span it will have been sorted and become a superb machine.
And yes there is always the @ollie989898 option on importing the real Mcoy a LC.......But I do think Ineos could get there as I'm an optimist.
My LR110 is still going after 28 years. Last trip was Ipswich to Manchester in December 2009. Jump in, drive to Manchester. Collect machinery and drive home. Since covid I have'nt been near it so a new battery and MOT would help..... I'd still jump in and drive the same journey if I had these two things.
SS

 

[Robt]

The base model is surely aimed at farmers as a towing vehicle because not many other customers would want such a model,think of all those new Ivors been towed to the breeding ewe sales in the autumn, and I can think of a few store cattle sellers looking at the brochures at the moment come to think of it
I meant to quote Robt

Yes but that would be , 20 sales a year? The base model will become the “cool” one. It’ll be leased by wealthy parents for their children .

 

[Ducati899]

Had a deposit down on one for about 4 years,went to dealers last June to look at a 90 commercial and decided then that I wanted my deposit back. Couldn’t see the justification of spending nearly 60k on one time it was specced up