New limits to SFI.

[Humble Village Farmer]

This is a discussion about sfi
Have you claimed sfi ?
I can’t get anyone to explain how they have come to the rates as yet

Yes I have claimed SFI. Didn't need any explanation of the rates. I just made a straightforward business decision that me and the farm would be better off, and not just financially.

 

[britishblue]

When you're selling weaned suckled stores at over a thousand and fat hoggetts at £4 a kilo why do you need any of it?

Because I looked online to see about replacing a tractor. When I last bought a new tractor in 2007 it cost me £36'600 and now I can only get one with 6000hrs for the same money. My baler has done 48000bales and I am wanting to get a reliable one to bale straw for those £1000 suckled calves to lie on. How much will that cost me compared to 8 years ago.
Do you want me to go on? Diesel,fertiliser,chemicals,vet bills,pick ups to tow these expensive suckled calves? These calves are where they should have been years ago!

 

[britishblue]

I have 2 lads coming on to farm who are mad keen I want the best for them. I have a profit without subsidies although not enough. I don’t have time for other jobs.
What’s wrong with any of that?
Do you have other income or farm solely?

Nothing wrong with any of that! Similar situation but we don't live etravagently ! We would scrape a living without subsidies but do you want your kids to be grafting away just to get by?

 

[fieldfarmer]

I do put that stock in that field though

But it not the produce of that field for the year though is it? so why would you need compensation for that amount, you'd just put the hoggs in another field and Carry on with no income lost.

 

[DrWazzock]

What about a mixture of SAM3 and NUM3 - looking at the NUM3 prescription to me it seems possible to include some grazing / possibly cutting into this legume fallow for £590 ha compared to SAM3 £383. Not sure what proportion but your thoughts?

Yes I’m considering num3. We’d need to get the seed mix right. I am a bit concerned about blackgrass taking off in it but have read some useful advice on another thread about including a competitive grass in it and topping frequently to keep BG at bay. The shepherd isn’t very keen on the high proportion of legumes in it. Red clover in particular would need two years in the ground to do itself justice here and I think the grazing restrictions would be too tight for it to be of reliable use for the shepherd. SAM3 doesn’t pay as well as you rightly point out but only requires a 5 week grazing exclusion, wouldn’t need reestablishing as often and reduces the BG risk. Sheep are at record prices at the moment. But that could change. Even the sam3 payment would put us at a big competitive advantage to upland grass farmers. I admit that, but I didn’t create the scheme.

 

[Hindsight]

Yes I’m considering num3. We’d need to get the seed mix right. I am a bit concerned about blackgrass taking off in it but have read some useful advice on another thread about including a competitive grass in it and topping frequently to keep BG at bay. The shepherd isn’t very keen on the high proportion of legumes in it. Red clover in particular would need two years in the ground to do itself justice here and I think the grazing restrictions would be too tight for it to be of reliable use for the shepherd. SAM3 doesn’t pay as well as you rightly point out but only requires a 5 week grazing exclusion, wouldn’t need reestablishing as often and reduces the BG risk. Sheep are at record prices at the moment. But that could change. Even the sam3 payment would put us at a big competitive advantage to upland grass farmers. I admit that, but I didn’t create the scheme.

Is there a grazing exclusion for SAM3? There is for GS4 in Stewardship. Read the guidance DrW. I know you like to put obstacles on your own way!

 

[Hindsight]

Yes I’m considering num3. We’d need to get the seed mix right. I am a bit concerned about blackgrass taking off in it but have read some useful advice on another thread about including a competitive grass in it and topping frequently to keep BG at bay. The shepherd isn’t very keen on the high proportion of legumes in it. Red clover in particular would need two years in the ground to do itself justice here and I think the grazing restrictions would be too tight for it to be of reliable use for the shepherd. SAM3 doesn’t pay as well as you rightly point out but only requires a 5 week grazing exclusion, wouldn’t need reestablishing as often and reduces the BG risk. Sheep are at record prices at the moment. But that could change. Even the sam3 payment would put us at a big competitive advantage to upland grass farmers. I admit that, but I didn’t create the scheme.

incidentall, i thought might see the might Cyclone in the Bicker Bar sale last weekend!!

 

[DrWazzock]

I’m not sure how rotational options during the the three year life of an agreement work as areas of rotational options go up and down with parcel sizes either. I have large and small parcels. Seems quite compacted keeping track of it all. Bang it all in to SAM3 for three years. Range the sheep? £30k gross sub. More than we made as profit some years even with BPS!

 

[DrWazzock]

Is there a grazing exclusion for SAM3? There is for GS4 in Stewardship. Read the guidance DrW. I know you like to put obstacles on your own way!

I’ll look again but I am fairly sure they wanted a 5 week grazing exclusion between May and July to allow the herbs to flower. (Or it coukd be a 5 week exclusion including and following mowing) much as we now get a field of clover flowers following haymaking on our clover / grass leys.
But I’m a few versions back.

 

[Hindsight]

I’m not sure how rotational options during the the three year life of an agreement work as areas of rotational options go up and down with parcel sizes either. I have large and small parcels. Seems quite compacted keeping track of it all. Bang it all in to SAM3 for three years. Range the sheep? £30k gross sub. More than we made as profit some years even with BPS!

The options that are rotational are only rotational if you want them to be rotational. SAM3 and NUM3 can be left in same place for three years. I tease but you do keep stumbling across those obstacles!!!

 

[Henarar]

Yes I have claimed SFI. Didn't need any explanation of the rates. I just made a straightforward business decision that me and the farm would be better off, and not just financially.

In the end you can worry that the chap over the hedge or down the valley is getting tuppence more than you are but it won't help one bit, size up what is right for you and get on

 

[Bury the Trash]

I’ll look again but I am fairly sure they wanted a 5 week grazing exclusion between May and July to allow the herbs to flower. (Or it coukd be a 5 week exclusion including and following mowing) much as we now get a field of clover flowers following haymaking on our clover / grass leys.
But I’m a few versions back.

Those plants are vulnerable to constant tight (at anytime ) (inc the more robust ) red clover sheep grazing (winter because temptation is very strong with sheep is to use any keep available ) / summer periods you are right to be concerned. i dont think @Hindsight is a sheep keeper

 

[Henarar]

Yes I have claimed SFI. Didn't need any explanation of the rates. I just made a straightforward business decision that me and the farm would be better off, and not just financially.

In the end you can worry that the chap over the hedge or down the valley is getting tuppence more than you are but it won't help one bit, size up what is right for you and get on

 

[DrWazzock]

It might well crystallise to sam3 and num3 here.
Half the better land in NUM3 for three years. Half in wheat wheat barley then swap over.
Everything else, the lighter soils in SAM3. Simple and reasonable compromise all round. Don’t need to change anything during the three year life of the agreement. Cereal output will drop a good 60%. Hope AIC are ready for that. Just enough to keep my combine polished and my hand in.

 

[Hindsight]

Those plants are vulnerable to tight (inc the more robust ) red clover sheep grazing (winter because temptation is very strong with sheep is to use any keep available ) / summer periods you are right to be concerned. i dont think @Hindsight is a sheep keeper

My only involvement with Sheep BTT is a kebab in Nottingham after seeing a band! Last one was 10 days ago after seeing Twin Atlantic. Didn't bother last Sunday after seeing Simple Minds as parked car further out of town. Sadly no more bands in the diary until May 1st The Kills.

 

[Bury the Trash]

In the end you can worry that the chap over the hedge or down the valley is getting tuppence more than you are but it won't help one bit, size up what is right for you and get on

yes, i suppose so , you are right ...

 

[Flatland guy]

No-one has explained to me how restricting SFI does anything for food production or food security.

I believe those in charge think that if limit SFI, food will be grown on remainder. What they have not factored in is that a lot will be even more business astute may just say have voluntary payment free setaside with low prices and work part time elsewhere, e.g. for arable anyway have 30% fallow allow more to work down summer months ready for autumn drilling, eases workload, less spent on inputs, if have machinery will last much longer and probably just the same profit.

 

[fieldfarmer]

Because I looked online to see about replacing a tractor. When I last bought a new tractor in 2007 it cost me £36'600 and now I can only get one with 6000hrs for the same money. My baler has done 48000bales and I am wanting to get a reliable one to bale straw for those £1000 suckled calves to lie on. How much will that cost me compared to 8 years ago.
Do you want me to go on? Diesel,fertiliser,chemicals,vet bills,pick ups to tow these expensive suckled calves? These calves are where they should have been years ago!

All the same costs to the arable guys that are selling corn below the cost of production ,the beef side of my business has had to significantly prop up the arable side for a while now, a lorry load of dairy cross bucket reared heifer cavles Finnishing over 2k dead leaves a margin to pays alot of bills.

 

[DrWazzock]

We might not even need to make any hay if we can spread the sheep out over winter. I’m sure the upland lads will soon cotton on to our competive advantage by raising the price of the breeding stock!

 

[livestock 1]

But it not the produce of that field for the year though is it? so why would you need compensation for that amount, you'd just put the hoggs in another field and Carry on with no income lost.

I asked how they had come to the rates and they said on here many times it was income forgone
I wasn’t suggesting that that amount should be compensated but there is income made off hill ground as well as arable so if it is income forgone then the powers that be shouldn’t assume that £4 per acre would buy us or £60 per acre would pay us enough to knacker the ground
Remember we are talking about income off various land