New SFI Capital grants on used machinery etc

[Clive]

In the recent DEFRA q&a with Janet Hughes we discussed a members question that asked why capital grants were only available on new equipment when most farmer bought used

Reason given was it was very difficult to set a mechanism that wasn’t potential open to abuse from dealers etc (or how do you determine true value etc ).

TFF members were asked for suggestions for a mechanism that could potentially make capital grants for used equipment a reality

so …….. suggestions please ! ( they call this “co- design” apparently)

q&a video here, this question at 10.20 mins

 

[bobk]

Welsh one launched September.
List of certain applicable qualifying new items.

Welsh get grants for everything .

 

[Still Farming]

Welsh get grants for everything .

Half the items are mega money to start with , plenty of hoops to jump through and stuff you never buy or want ?
Manufacturers do the best allegedly?

 

[Pistonbroke]

Welsh get grants for everything .

It's the same grant england have had but there's money left in the pot

 

[bobk]

It's the same grant england have had but there's money left in the pot

I've never had one ..

 

[Highland Mule]

I've never had one ..

Have you applied for any?

 

[bobk]

Have you applied for any?

No , I knew not of their existence .

 

[Pistonbroke]

No , I knew not of their existence .

Countryside productivity grant wasn't it? Same rules same sort of equipment. You snooze you lose

 

[bobk]

Countryside productivity grant wasn't it? Same rules same sort of equipment. You snooze you lose

Obviously I snoozed

 

[Pistonbroke]

Farm Business Grant its called in Wales.

I am guessing it is only for applicants that didn't have their full amount earlier,is it? Or can we have another bite out of the cherry?

 

[Sid]

Grants always distort markets.
Abuse always take place , know a grant given by a major retailer for a livestock shed to improve animal welfare.

Other new equipment appears at the same time as part of the "deal" with the supplier.
Shed and equipment in it was over priced.


Given the removal of BPS even the new grant aided equipment will be slower to sell!

 

[Highland Mule]

Obviously I snoozed

Looks like it. Always worth keeping an eye out for business opportunities.

And has a dealer never invoiced full price for grant purposes then given the farmer a discount?

For the Scottish one, we had to submit bank statements alongside receipted invoices, although there are ways around that too, I guess.

 

[Pistonbroke]

Grants always distort markets.
Abuse always take place , know a grant given by a major retailer for a livestock shed to improve animal welfare.

Other new equipment appears at the same time as part of the "deal" with the supplier.
Shed and equipment in it was over priced.


Given the removal of BPS even the new grant aided equipment will be slower to sell!

Someone told me at the time,that the money for the grant came from bps being reduced anyway so they too k it away with one hand and gave it back to some but not others

 

[Kevtherev]

Shame these capital grants weren’t available to the small one man band contractor who has to compete with grant aided machines being used off farm for contracting.

 

[Still Farming]

I am guessing it is only for applicants that didn't have their full amount earlier,is it? Or can we have another bite out of the cherry?

The 28 page guidance booklet may say ?
Are you from Wales?

 

[Pistonbroke]

The 28 page guidance booklet may say ?
Are you from Wales?

Yes. Had it first time. Phone won't download the guidance for some reason. Will look on the laptop

 

[Clive]

The grant in question for this thread are the capital grants planned under the new SFI scheme

currently they will only be for new machinery - in the video Janet says if we can come up with a robust mechanism to prevent fraud etc they could maybe be extended to used machinery

 

[steveR]

Obviously I snoozed

3 times??

 

[glasshouse]

I had a machine from a dealer in England who hadn't heard about the Welsh grant,two neighbours had the same machine six months later and they were three grand more. Grant finished and they went back down

The obvious solution to the grants for second hand items would be to to a) have a list of approved dealers (to which any machinery dealer could apply), b) to have rules for what second hand machinery would qualify, such as must be less than 5 years old, must be in good working order etc etc and c) pay a % of the cost.

I'm not sure what Janet Whatshername said there was an issue with pricing, because aren't capital grants paid on a % basis anyway? So it doesn't really matter what the price is, you always get the same % back?

The only real issues with grants for second hand kit are whether the item is up to the job and the State is getting value for money for what they are paying for. Given the farmer is going to have to pay the majority of the purchase price anyway, I really don't see what issues could arise - who is going to spend £10k of their own money on a clapped out machine worth scrap value thats been artificially priced at £10k just to get £4k back? Obviously there could be criminal fraud involving collusion between dealer and farmer, but that could happen with new stuff just as easily as second hand.

It could have a very good cascade effect down the industry - those at the top can get a grant on a new one and trade their old one in, which provides a supply of used equipment for those further down the food chain to buy and still get some grant money.

Money goes to money

 

[Kevtherev]

Know of a lot of ‘grant’ aided machines sat under hedges going green with nettles growing round them surely that’s just a waste of resources isn’t it??

 

[Steevo]

Know of a lot of ‘grant’ aided machines sat under hedges going green with nettles growing round them surely that’s just a waste of resources isn’t it??

Perfect!!! That’s just what they want…taxpayer funds being used for re-wilding projects!!!

Far better than wasting the money on farming.