New tractor, what fuel?

Discussion in 'Classic Machinery' started by Grandad Pig, May 16, 2019.

  1. Ley253

    Ley253 Member

    Location:
    Bath
    Seems I was lucky! My tank was blessed with both a clear gell, and a viscous black sludge. They combined to stop the engine when I had ten mins and one run left to finish my plot at the national ploughing match at Bishops Lydeard. I don`t think I will be forgetting the treatment any time soon!
     
  2. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    Marine environments are completely different to the issues in tractors. There the main issue is water ingress. This water can have nutrients and bacteria present.
    Water condensing in fuel tanks is another issue. It is devoid of nutrients and bacteria. The issue here in land based tanks is rust which forms in the droplets of water hanging on the surface of the tank, where both water and air is present. The the rust forms in extremely fine particles and eventually ends up in the base of the tank. In a stationery fuel tank it is no real issue except when they are drained to the right out, refilling and the resultant surging mixes the particles with the diesel and will transfer to any vehicle being topped up too soon. Thankfully these rust particles are very heavy so very quickly sink back to the bottom of the tank. The same of course is not true of those particles forming in a vehicle tank. If the vehicle is in continuous use, the sloshing of the diesel ensures that the condensed water droplets do not form. Any particles which may form will be trapped by the filters.
    It only occurs in vehicles which stand for prolonged periods and this sediment being extremely fine will cause blockage on the filters rapidly and sometimes is sufficient to block. The issue can be resolved normally with oversize water traps before the filter
     
  3. oakleaf

    oakleaf Member

    Yep I stick in standard 2 stroke at a ratio of 0.5% myself.
     
  4. Grandad Pig

    Grandad Pig Member

    See what you are getting at mate. I think we are talking about two different issues here. Rust in mild steel tanks and diesel bug (biological contamination) anywhere diesel is stored for any length of time.

    Have a good weekend
     
    Exfarmer likes this.
  5. Damomc

    Damomc Member

    Location:
    pembrokeshire
    Sorry your WRONG:banghead:!!! Just so everyone under stands super market fuel is the same as fuels sold by Texaco,BP,Shell etc they all have the same addavties put in. As for red diesel that is a differnent spec (Gas oil) to EN590. Yes sometimes you will be lucky and get red EN590 but that is know as given away as the refinery will have run low of Gas oil so they "give it away" so you get EN590 diesel for the same price as gas oil.How do I know this, because im currenly sat in a oil refiney making the stuff.(y)
     
    Exfarmer likes this.
  6. 76masseyman

    76masseyman Member

    Location:
    Lincolncestershire
    Same as what I understood from the guys at Immingham regarding the EN590 red diesel.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
    Exfarmer likes this.
  7. Ley253

    Ley253 Member

    Location:
    Bath
    Ok, so why does the engine fault warning light up on a friends Honda crv, when supermarket(sainsburys)fuel was used, not just on one vehicle, but one three years ago and now its replacement. No problem with garage fuels though.
     
    oakleaf and REStracTORATION like this.
  8. Well we have a choice upon ordering en590 red or standard red gas oil

    Even our local shell station sells red at the pumps and that's marked en590


    And why oh why oh why do we have customers that solely run on supermarket fuel they have serious issues with injectors!!!!! Answer that please

    They customers running on non supermarket stuff in the same vans etc not only are returning 3mpg more and don't have fuel issues
    You may make the stuff but it seems one hell of coincidence
     
    mf298 likes this.
  9. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    I would suggest the sort of customer who always sources the very cheapest fuel may also be chucking in cooking oil etc.
    I have also always sourced th cheapest fuel and can honestly say I have never had injector issues despite driving some fairly high performing cars
     
  10. oakleaf

    oakleaf Member

    It may well all be the exact same out the refinery gate but it doesnt necessarily follow that that means its all the same at the forecourt pump.
     
    Qman, multi power and REStracTORATION like this.
  11. This is exactly what I'm getting at
     
  12. How long have you had the vehicles and miles
    There is no cooking oil being used
    Only in supermarket fuels I guess why are they cheaper and why do the froth so much when filling
    Compared to other places

    One customer had injector issues on a vehicle under warranty run on nothing but sm fuel the claim got thrown out because of bio fuel level and contaminated

    He has since swapped to non sm fuel done another 88k miles no issues what so ever does the same run every week
     
  13. Damomc

    Damomc Member

    Location:
    pembrokeshire
    I’m guessing there’s a significant price difference between the two red diesels and what spec is the en590? B0 or B7 ? Obviously I can’t tell you why some of your customers have injector problems and others don’t.
    Mpg is easy to answer! Different people use there right leg more than others !
    Supper market fuel is rubbished buy people because its generally cheaper than other outlets. So therefore if it cheaper it must be crap !! The super markets use it as a loss leader to get you into there stores to spend more money, just like milk ! It has nothing to do with the quality of the fuel as it all comes from the same tanks in a refinery/fuel depot. Do you really think that refinery’s have separate diesel tanks for each of the companies that pull fuel out every day and that they have a special Tesco spec diesel and a extra special one for shell or BP as customers will pay more for it!!
    ! If I had a quid for every time I’ve had to explain this to people
     
  14. tomlad

    tomlad Member

    Location:
    nr. preston
    So is super diesel better than cheep diesel
     
  15. Yes it's the same in the refinery
    But when it's left you....:banghead:
     
  16. Cheap diesel is bio mixed
    Super diesel is how diesel used to be :ROFLMAO:
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    tomlad likes this.
  17. TheTallGuy

    TheTallGuy Member

    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Serious question - if supermarkets use exactly the same fuel with the same additives out of the same tanks as Shell & BP, how come the big contamination issue a few years ago only affected the supermarkets? Specifically Tesco, Morrisons & Asda - all of whom were supplied from Greenergy/Harvest tanks at Thurrock?

    As for supermarkets using fuel as a loss leader to get customers in-store - why have supermarkets been at the forefront of providing "pay at the pump", which the big name fuel stations have been reluctant to do?

    The supermarkets generally do make profit on the fuel, but the lower price comes from the lower operating costs of being adjacent to main stores on land already owned or leased by the supermarkets, & also not having to effectively pay the franchise costs associated with the big names.
     
    multi power likes this.
  18. Exfarmer

    Exfarmer Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    Surely it is a legal requirement to have a proportion of Bio diesel in all UK fuel.
    I think you will be surprised just how many top up their tanks with oil from a variety of sources, especially used engine oil.
    It is a fact that a big part of the problem with the poor air quality in the cities is because of burning fuels such as this which do not burn cleanly. They then have to remove the particulate filters.
    Another major issue in some parts of the world is residual acid from cleaning up red diesel
     
  19. Damomc

    Damomc Member

    Location:
    pembrokeshire
    Most diesel sold on the forcorts is bio diesel EN590 B7 ( B7 meaning up to 7% FAME ) the other high spec being EN59 B0 (No bio) You can google yourselfs if you want to know what FAME is all i will tell you is that its stinks like rotten fish!. Most problems caused with fuel contamination is caused by human error ie sombody mixxing a diffent hydrocarbon in with the diesel or petrol ( opening or forgeting to close the valves).
    All gas oil is died red before leaving the refinery. Apart from the gas oil used in comercial shipping as this is exempt. i would put a months wages on that if you tested texaco fuel or simliar againt a S/M fuel it would exatly the same. The fines are to high from the HMRC for the oil companys/storage depos for to pee around trying to flog sh!t fuel to the S/M ( im taking millions of pounds for small fudge ups that ive seen - not enough red die in the diesel is one they love !!)
     
    Celtic Driver likes this.

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