I imagine there will have to be an extra long propaganda video this year... to crowd out time for awkward questions.
NFU mutual financial results / remuneration
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
- Location
- Northumberland
Was just told that everyones insurance had gone up similar amounts.
It really hasn't.
NFU MUTUAL has jacked up premiums by around 60 percent in many cases. That's way out of line with tye rest of the industry. You can get better prices off the wider market- talk to a specialist agricultural broker.
Last edited:
When you thibk about it NFU MUTUAL boasting it has >75% of the farmer insurance market as it nakedly does should be a huge red flag for market abuse. Which is obviously happening.
When?
See the thread above. It's stated by others.
- Location
- Essex
I suppose it all goes back to a time when farmers were doing well and the NFU made "friends" with a lot of them.
Bit of spare cash? We'll invest it for you. No need to shop around, just sign here. Easy money.
Last edited:
Having researched Nicholas Pope, it turns out that he was a Group Secretary over in Louth until a few months ago...I contacted a friend of mine from a million years ago and he told me that some of his clients were quite sore about his departure. Apparently the NFU Mutual fired him recently on what were felt by some to be unfair grounds and with no warning. Who Knows? Stalinist execution? Who dares speak the truth?The minutes from the National Association of Group Secretaries were inadvertently published on the internet by mistake.
These make it fairly clear that:
It is appropriate to set out why this may be said. That is done with more detail below the line in this post.
- agents were being bullied
and
- that vulnerable customers were being put in danger because duties owed to them were not being complied with .
When it was raised publicly and with the CEO's office that these issues appeared to exist the minutes were instantly wiped from the internet.
They had been freely available here: https://nagsonline.org/
Luckily, copies were kept and I understand the Bank of England and Parliament has them...
===
In December 2020, the National Association of Group Secretaries ("NAGS") recorded the CEO, Nick Turner, had put on record that the business was not doing enough to support vulnerable customers, a report from the agents stated:
"System glitches have been identified where business client customer care flags are not being pulled through on... reports or even being picked up.... The suggested workaround is not acceptable, and we [Agents] are pushing back hard..,training is incredibly dry."
(Source: Pope, Nicholas (December 2020). "NAGS Agents' Liaison Group Report" (PDF). nagsonline.org.)
Failing to record details of the needs of vulnerable customers in this way is a breach of Financial Conduct Authority Guidance, which can result in vulnerable customer harm being caused. (See: Financial Conduct Authority (February 2021). "Finalised guidance FG21/1 Guidance for firms on the fair treatment of vulnerable customers" (PDF).)
===
The National Association of NFU Groups Secretaries AGM Minutes for 2019 disclose that there had had to be:
"legal negotiations [with NFUM] with regards to [the] welfare [of agents]".
The more recent 2020 AGM minutes for the same organisation representing local agents disclose that a whistleblowing number had had to be established "for anyone who feels that they are getting bullied" by NFU Mutual.
(source: "National Association of NFU Agents Minutes from 2019 AGM" (PDF). 2020.)
Nearer 6% here last Dec,
What's your involvement in all this ?
citation for the 60 per cent increases
Nobody really remarked very much at the time about the NFU staff that went to prison for fraud.
Gordon Murray was jailed for his fraud on the members of £410,000
(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14120503),
and then in 2018, Iain Wishlade got over two years of prison for a £129,000 fraud
(source: https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/iain-wishlade-jailed-129k-1944486).
Failure to keep a lid on embezzlement like this all has to be funded by the members!!!
Gordon Murray was jailed for his fraud on the members of £410,000
(source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14120503),
and then in 2018, Iain Wishlade got over two years of prison for a £129,000 fraud
(source: https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/burton/iain-wishlade-jailed-129k-1944486).
Failure to keep a lid on embezzlement like this all has to be funded by the members!!!
It is all together to cosy and familiar.
It is ripe for abuse and that is what has happened.
If you look at the NFUM website and dig into their historical documents relating to the articles of association, they have spent that last few years changing the rules. I think that it would now be very difficult for members to change anything or call for votes at any AGM or other meetings...From memory (I may be incorrect) you now need to dance like Nijinsky to get yourself heard:
GENERAL MEETINGS
We are also proposing changes to the provisions which enable members to requisition a general meeting, and to requisition a resolution to be put to the AGM, including changes:
• to set the level of support required to exercise these powers at 500 or more members representing at least 1% of total voting rights;
• to extend the time periods to convene and hold a requisitioned general meeting and to introduce a cut-off date for the receipt of a requisition for a resolution to be put to an AGM; and
• to allow the Directors to set a record date which will be used to calculate voting rights and determine whether the required level of support has been obtained.
Under section 303 of the CA 2006, members have a separate power to requisition a general meeting; the threshold to exercise this power is 5% of total voting rights.
Other changes in relation to general meetings include:
• enabling the holding of general meetings in which members would be able to participate by electronic means as well as by being physically present (should the Directors wish to hold general meetings in this manner);
• giving the Directors flexibility to re-arrange a general meeting in the event of, for example, threatened disruption or other circumstances affecting the comfort, health, safety, or wellbeing of attendees;
• aligning the quorum for AGMs and all other general meetings (save for those convened upon member requisition) at 13 persons present in person and entitled to vote, being members or duly authorised representatives of corporate members;
• adopting the provisions in the CA 2006 regarding notice periods for general meetings, although a longer notice period of at least 21 days is included for an AGM;
• removing the historic distinction between ordinary and special business at a general meeting;
• providing that no poll is to be a taken on the question of an adjournment of a general meeting, in order to allow a prompt decision to be taken on such a question;
• allowing, should Directors wish, all votes at a general meeting to be taken on a poll without a vote on a show of hands first being taken;
• introducing more detailed provision in relation to amendments to resolutions, including to the effect that at least 48 hours’ notice is to be given to NFU Mutual of any proposed amendment to an ordinary resolution.
It is fairly clear that the Agents are being bullied and are absolutely terrified of the executives.
To my certain knowledge one agent asked to only be talked to on his private mobile about the fall our from shady behaviour because they worried about "reprisals from head office".
It is a matter of record that the National Association of Group Secretaries minuted threats to lose agencies and lawyers were instincted around agent welfare.
It is possible at any mutual for some unscrupulous people to target a venerable and trusted thing in a hostile way with a developing intention to operate without effective scrutiny and/or oversight.
And then to help themselves to generous remuneration without too many people noticing, and the opportunity to quietly remove a person from the membership if they begin to ask too many questions is surely very tempting (and imposible with normal shareholders of course)..
This happened in other such business -- Equitable Life being the famous case.. and of course Parliament was worried about that and asked NFU Mutual to explain why it would not go the same way... It said it was imposible because of firm governance which has now been eroded...
I was told that before he became CEO of the NFUM, Lindsay Sinclair specialised in the de-mutualisation of Mutual Societies in the far East. Whether this is true or not is probably immaterial now that he is off the list.
Does anyone know whether NFUM actually owns the NFUM management Company limited?
Rumour (a lot of this sadly) had it that because of the rules against directors of a Mutual benefitting from the sale of a Mutual on whose board they sat, a separate organisation had been set up so that if a de-mutualisation was pushed through, the management could benefit in full as they would have been acting as "contractors" to the Mutual. I am not sure if this is the case or not though, I wasn't sure of the integrity of the source as he was pretty angry at the time.
If it helps get to the bottom of this N.F.U. MUTUAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY (Number 01655167) has only three officers CREECHAN (NFUM company secretary) MCLAREN (Current chair) and TURNER (CEO).
It seems to have 148100 shares (2022 return at Companies House). It was set up in 1982.
That is separate business and does its own accounts. It retained earnings of £7.78million, in 2021 - the most recent accounts.
It's receiving dividend income from NFUM subsidiary companies.
It turned over £30m in 2021 but seems to have very little in the way of costs.
It paid dividends for £450.00 per share in 2021 - which is a disbursment of £45million(!)
Unclear who the shareholders are. Feels like the members put to know the answer to that one.
But it seems like rather a generous dividend went somewhere.
The accounts are audited. DELOITTE AGAIN!!
I'm sure the management will be happy to explain what this company is all about...
Fells like the members of NFU Mutual need to switch out the business's auditors...
In 2020, £45 million pounds paid was out to something/someone in dividend income from N.F.U. MUTUAL MANAGEMENT COMPANY LIMITED.
This per the accounts at Company's House - who owns these shares? and therefore received that money? Do the members own those shares via the Mutual?
Source: 13 Sep 2022 Full accounts made up to 31 December 2021 available from https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/01655167/filing-history
This per the accounts at Company's House - who owns these shares? and therefore received that money? Do the members own those shares via the Mutual?
Source: 13 Sep 2022 Full accounts made up to 31 December 2021 available from https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/01655167/filing-history