Nz beltex

[NZDan]

I suspect someone is importing that UK breed into NZ to try and make a killing from 'something different' & exotic. I also suspect they won't be taking over the kiwi sheep industry.
I'd compare it with the UK imports of those Swiss black nose things. A small number will make a killing out of the small number of folk that fancy trying something different, however uneconomic and impractical they might be.

There is some of them there Black Swiss things arriving in NZ as well.

 

[NZDan]

Wonder what a Suffolk x Dorper lamb would be like??

Some near here, they're quite good sheep.

 

[NZDan]

The Kiwis appear to have their maternal flock running pretty well for their system, and the male byproduct off this system seems to be marketable.

I am guessing that some will want to boost incomes from the ewes that they are not breeding replacements from, and using a terminal sire might offer potential to do that.

But I'm as good as certain that the Beltex will be a terminal only sheep there, and won't make it's way into the commercial ewe flock in NZ, due to the issues with births due to female deformities.

I'm also unconvinced that our NZ cousins will react well to breeding rams from ewes that require extreme intervention to get lambs on the ground.

Either way 10 years will tell, a small number of imports for a micro pilot project tells us nothing, other than that there is someone in NZ thst is prepared to take a gamble on something different. It's happened and failed here in the UK with more breeds than I care to think of.

I'm planning on trying some Beltex semen over Finn and FinnTex ewes. I'm hoping the Beltex will bring the ewe size down dramatically but leave a well muscled ewe that can still be mated to a big growthy terminal ram, and still lamb over 200%.
It will be interesting to see how the beltex x ewes cope with my farming system, I'm not really the worlds greatest feeder of sheep.

 

[liammogs]

I'm planning on trying some Beltex semen over Finn and FinnTex ewes. I'm hoping the Beltex will bring the ewe size down dramatically but leave a well muscled ewe that can still be mated to a big growthy terminal ram, and still lamb over 200%.
It will be interesting to see how the beltex x ewes cope with my farming system, I'm not really the worlds greatest feeder of sheep.

I keep pure beltex ewes, and i can keep a beltex ewe a lot cheaper than a large commercial ewe! There was a guy on farmers weekly a year ago or so saying how hes changed from texel x flock to a beltex x flock due to the ewe still performing the same but cheaper to keep, and with him using beltex tups his 3/4 beltex lambs were returning more ££ sold as stores or fat

 

[andybk]

Agreed @andybk i cant see much difference between charollais and texels here anymore. Maybe just the ones ive seen but they all seemed wide in the shoulders. I follow a couple of nz charollais pages on fb and they look like high end top quality charollias from what i remember about 15 years ago. Good shape on them but narrower fronts. They looked really good to be fair. Winder how long till someone imports some back here? Wouldnt mind one or two for my ewe lambs juging from what ive seen.

Main reason i went back to france the last 2 years (6 recorded rams here now ) , They may be a bit rougher around the edges , but that structure is becoming a real issue in the uk breed , i challenge anyone to walk between the charollais pens and texel x char pens at builth main sale and see a difference .

 

[andybk]

I'm planning on trying some Beltex semen over Finn and FinnTex ewes. I'm hoping the Beltex will bring the ewe size down dramatically but leave a well muscled ewe that can still be mated to a big growthy terminal ram, and still lamb over 200%.
It will be interesting to see how the beltex x ewes cope with my farming system, I'm not really the worlds greatest feeder of sheep.

be better with small blocky char , or you might end up with small slow growing lambs with finn conformation , was told years ago that the extreem muscle on the belty was recessive gene (same as blue tex) so often you dont end up with a sum of the two parts , would work better if you had some tex in the ewe line .

 

[M-J-G]

I'm planning on trying some Beltex semen over Finn and FinnTex ewes. I'm hoping the Beltex will bring the ewe size down dramatically but leave a well muscled ewe that can still be mated to a big growthy terminal ram, and still lamb over 200%.
It will be interesting to see how the beltex x ewes cope with my farming system, I'm not really the worlds greatest feeder of sheep.

I'm guessing that might be ok as long as the ewes lamb with no trouble.

 

[Woolless]

I'm guessing that might be ok as long as the ewes lamb with no trouble.

And that might be the issue..

 

[neilo]

Agreed @andybk i cant see much difference between charollais and texels here anymore. Maybe just the ones ive seen but they all seemed wide in the shoulders. I follow a couple of nz charollais pages on fb and they look like high end top quality charollias from what i remember about 15 years ago. Good shape on them but narrower fronts. They looked really good to be fair. Winder how long till someone imports some back here? Wouldnt mind one or two for my ewe lambs juging from what ive seen.

I would suggest you may be looking in the wrong places.

 

[shearerlad]

I keep pure beltex ewes, and i can keep a beltex ewe a lot cheaper than a large commercial ewe! There was a guy on farmers weekly a year ago or so saying how hes changed from texel x flock to a beltex x flock due to the ewe still performing the same but cheaper to keep, and with him using beltex tups his 3/4 beltex lambs were returning more ££ sold as stores or fat

Ive also done this. My first lambs from beltex x Cheviot mule were weaned last week. Very happy with them. Ewes need less feed, even at one more ewe and offspring unit per ha it can make a difference.
Just a pity it takes so long to get there when breeding your own.

 

[hendrebc]

I would suggest you may be looking in the wrong places.

@neilo i think so too. Have settled on nz texels now. Get in well with them so will stick with them for now
In future who knows what i might get

 

[NZDan]

I'm guessing that might be ok as long as the ewes lamb with no trouble.

Don't really have any issues with lambing difficulties in Finns, I mate my Hoggets to a texel and I don't recall ever having to pull one out of a Finn, but the X ewes may be an issue, I'll wait and see with the first crop of hoggets.

 

[M-J-G]

Don't really have any issues with lambing difficulties in Finns, I mate my Hoggets to a texel and I don't recall ever having to pull one out of a Finn, but the X ewes may be an issue, I'll wait and see with the first crop of hoggets.

It was more the Beltex daughters that I was meaning.

 

[NZDan]

be better with small blocky char , or you might end up with small slow growing lambs with finn conformation , was told years ago that the extreem muscle on the belty was recessive gene (same as blue tex) so often you dont end up with a sum of the two parts , would work better if you had some tex in the ewe line .

I'm not sure that there is any small blocky Char in NZ, For now I'll stick with a Texel type sheep. So far with my Texel Xs the growth on the TexelXFinn (50:50) lambs is better than the Finns, and the 75:25 is better again than the 50:50. But the pure Texels are no better than the 75:25s.
Interestingly I sold two pure Finn rams in to stud flocks last year, one to a Romney breeder and one to a Texel breeder, the X lambs out grew the Romneys and were the same as the Texels. I've never bred X lambs from anything other than a Finn ewe so was pleasantly surprised.
I have used an extremely muscled smallish Dorper in the past and the x ewes were great easy kept ewes, unfortunately the rams feet were poor and most were culled for bad feet sooner or later, the last remaining daughter was culled last summer as a 9 year old mind, so some did last a good while.

 

[NZDan]

It was more the Beltex daughters that I was meaning.

Yes, they could be an issue, we'll find out in due course.

 

[andybk]

I'm not sure that there is any small blocky Char in NZ, For now I'll stick with a Texel type sheep. So far with my Texel Xs the growth on the TexelXFinn (50:50) lambs is better than the Finns, and the 75:25 is better again than the 50:50. But the pure Texels are no better than the 75:25s.
Interestingly I sold two pure Finn rams in to stud flocks last year, one to a Romney breeder and one to a Texel breeder, the X lambs out grew the Romneys and were the same as the Texels. I've never bred X lambs from anything other than a Finn ewe so was pleasantly surprised.
I have used an extremely muscled smallish Dorper in the past and the x ewes were great easy kept ewes, unfortunately the rams feet were poor and most were culled for bad feet sooner or later, the last remaining daughter was culled last summer as a 9 year old mind, so some did last a good while.

yes there is

 

[MJT]

I'd say the right sort of beltex on your ewes would produce daughters who lamb absolutely fine. From personal experience I'd always go for a texel in a maternal sheep rather than Charollais, soft udders and teets aswell as lack of milk, or ewes seemingly trying to dry themselves up at 6-7 weeks didn't give me much faith.

 

[Global ovine]

@Global ovine thanks for clearing that up. Your reasons for importing both breeds make a lot of sense and i totally understand your reasons for doing so. Ile de france would have been very interesting had the idea taken off. I apologise for any offence i might have caused by posting above comment.

Certainly no offence taken, just pleased to state the facts.

 

[Global ovine]

yes there is

Please explain where these are in NZ and from where they came in the UK. As immediate past president of Charollais Sheep Genetics NZ (Breed Society) I know of only 2 recent importers and the flocks those genetics have gone into. Being one of those importers I am puzzled by your reaction to NZDan's comment doubting that there is small blocky Chars in NZ. All other Charollais genetics were sourced in the early 2000s and entered NZ since 2009.

 

[andybk]

Please explain where these are in NZ and from where they came in the UK. As immediate past president of Charollais Sheep Genetics NZ (Breed Society) I know of only 2 recent importers and the flocks those genetics have gone into. Being one of those importers I am puzzled by your reaction to NZDan's comment doubting that there is small blocky Chars in NZ. All other Charollais genetics were sourced in the early 2000s and entered NZ since 2009.

they went as part of last years export of embryos and semen along with others , im pretty sure you know who .