Oilseed rape risk share schemes on the seed

[Barry]

As someone who deals with breeders and has been discussing the various rapeseed 'deals' that are being offered to help with risk of crop failure at establishment. I wondered what growers views of them are?

There are 3 types to my knowledge:

1 You pay the full price and if it fails you get about a third back
2 You pay 2/3rds the price and if it is successful you get charged the other third as a per hectare charge
3 You pay the full price + £15 per pack premium, if it fails you get a full credit for next year's seed (same variety) and if that fails you get your money back that you originally paid.

Now that is a simplification of the schemes!

Nearly all the above are on specific hybrids. And very clearly the alternative for some people who think they have a high risk of establishment failure is to save your own.

But you can't do that with a hybrid.

So are the 3 types of any interest? And if not what would you need to be changed to make it of interest?

I have deliberately not listed the varieties in each as I am more interested in the principle.



Barry

 

[teslacoils]

In the olden days, Modesto or cruiser dressing respresented about half the price of the seed.

So how about halving the price, selling fungicide treated only seed, and forgetting any schemes?

 

[warksfarmer]

As someone who deals with breeders and has been discussing the various rapeseed 'deals' that are being offered to help with risk of crop failure at establishment. I wondered what growers views of them are?

There are 3 types to my knowledge:

1 You pay the full price and if it fails you get about a third back
2 You pay 2/3rds the price and if it is successful you get charged the other third as a per hectare charge
3 You pay the full price + £15 per pack premium, if it fails you get a full credit for next year's seed (same variety) and if that fails you get your money back that you originally paid.

Now that is a simplification of the schemes!

Nearly all the above are on specific hybrids. And very clearly the alternative for some people who think they have a high risk of establishment failure is to save your own.

But you can't do that with a hybrid.

So are the 3 types of any interest? And if not what would you need to be changed to make it of interest?

I have deliberately not listed the varieties in each as I am more interested in the principle.



Barry

Barry, as I’ve said before these breeders that have previously taken the p**s now need to back down if they want supply.

All seed supplied foc for a buyback contract agreed at planting.

If they don’t they won’t have any growers within 5 years as hardly any osr will be grown as importing it is becoming far easier.

Slugs, pigeons, flea beetle, high chemical costs etc are finishing the crop. The stupidly high seed prices and how they decide what seed rate you’ll apply on land they’ve never set foot on is the problem.

Seed rates need to be 10kg + per ha to stand a chance of getting the crop through to January.

 

[Zippy768]

Our agronomist was banging on the other day about a chem company that was willing to give money back on pre-em if the crop failed to establish. Should had paid more attention to the details .
I was threating on not using a pre-em

 

[Barry]

The agchem scheme on a pre em is separate from the seed schemes but is from BASF. I understand it is on Katamaran Turbo, Springbok and Tanaris.

 

[CJS]

The agchem scheme on a pre em is separate from the seed schemes but is from BASF. I understand it is on Katamaran Turbo, Springbok and Tanaris.

Obviously got a shed full they can’t sell

 

[Clive]

As someone who deals with breeders and has been discussing the various rapeseed 'deals' that are being offered to help with risk of crop failure at establishment. I wondered what growers views of them are?

There are 3 types to my knowledge:

1 You pay the full price and if it fails you get about a third back
2 You pay 2/3rds the price and if it is successful you get charged the other third as a per hectare charge
3 You pay the full price + £15 per pack premium, if it fails you get a full credit for next year's seed (same variety) and if that fails you get your money back that you originally paid.

Now that is a simplification of the schemes!

Nearly all the above are on specific hybrids. And very clearly the alternative for some people who think they have a high risk of establishment failure is to save your own.

But you can't do that with a hybrid.

So are the 3 types of any interest? And if not what would you need to be changed to make it of interest?

I have deliberately not listed the varieties in each as I am more interested in the principle.



Barry

Define “fails” ? Insurance co’s like definitions!


Patches ? Entire fields ?

Makes it to harvest but significant reduced yield ?

 

[DrWazzock]

You need your head testing if you are applying a preem to a gamblers crop like OSR.

1 it knocks the crop so it can't get away from pests.
2 you might not get a crop so it's wasted and complicates alternative cropping options.


Why not order the springbok or whatever when the crop has got to two leaf. That's what I normally do.

As for the seed, just sell it at a price that reflects that fact it isn't dressed with anything very useful any more, I.e about half the price it is now.

Same with the beet seed.

As old Mr Nelstrop used to say, "share the pain".

 

[CJS]

Define “fails” ? Insurance co’s like definitions!


Patches ? Entire fields ?

Makes it to harvest but significant reduced yield ?

Asked this question at a trials day and didn’t get an answer The dates for establishing a crop and having to pay for the seed were way to early Nobody in my group were going to do it Obviously the breeders are only going to develop hybrid varieties to stop fss and think doing these schemes will convert growers to their way of thinking

 

[fudge]

Home saving is the way to go. Can’t believe many people will be paying a premium for hybrid rape.

 

[Boysground]

I have spoken to a number of farmers in this area over the last few weeks. Only 1 is planning to grow the same area as last year (I guess he would do 100ac) every one else was either cutting back a lot or not growing any. There may be a lot of seed to shift if the seed companies are not careful with the price.

I will only plant some if I have enough moisture to get it going.

Bg

 

[Zippy768]

Define “fails” ? Insurance co’s like definitions!


Patches ? Entire fields ?

Makes it to harvest but significant reduced yield ?

I image they will want evidence of a complete write off I.e. field recultivated or killed off. They wont take gambles on reimbusing and the grower still taking the crop throug

 

[Zippy768]

The agchem scheme on a pre em is separate from the seed schemes but is from BASF. I understand it is on Katamaran Turbo, Springbok and Tanaris.

Yep, that sounds familiar .

 

[Zippy768]

You need your head testing if you are applying a preem to a gamblers crop like OSR.

1 it knocks the crop so it can't get away from pests.
2 you might not get a crop so it's wasted and complicates alternative cropping options.


Why not order the springbok or whatever when the crop has got to two leaf. That's what I normally do.

As for the seed, just sell it at a price that reflects that fact it isn't dressed with anything very useful any more, I.e about half the price it is now.

Same with the beet seed.

As old Mr Nelstrop used to say, "share the pain".

If one is using metazachclor post-em doesn't it have to be applied pretty quickly once weeds are through - will only touch small weeds?? Would the osr be out of danger from csfb?

 

[Flat 10]

If one is using metazachclor post-em doesn't it have to be applied pretty quickly once weeds are through - will only touch small weeds?? Would the osr be out of danger from csfb?

I think yes and no. But if it reaches 2 true leaves you have more chance of it surviving CSFB.

 

[MrNoo]

I think yes and no. But if it reaches 2 true leaves you have more chance of it surviving CSFB.

Who told you that????!!!! Got to 4 true leaves here and the buggers ate the lot, all 200 acres of Compass, I re-drilled only for it to happen again I am not growing any next year but you would have to have your head examined if paying and planting a hybrid in a CSFB prone area, waste of time and money. Inputs pre Christmas are too high to take the gamble here and hybrid prices just stuff it up even more.

 

[Hobbit]

Every one I talk to who is still going to plant again are using FSS at a high seed rate with no pre-ems.
My store is full of CSFB.

 

[Barry]

Define “fails” ? Insurance co’s like definitions!


Patches ? Entire fields ?

Makes it to harvest but significant reduced yield ?

It varies with the different schemes from different breeders - most say you have to make a declaration that your crop has failed by the end of October.

The scheme with the extra £15 per pack gives you to the end of December and has a min area before a claim can be made of 3ha, essentially 1 pack.

We are not involved with all of the varieties so cannot go into all the fine details.

But 'crop failure' would involve redrilling the land with another crop or fallow. i.e. you can't just leave it there would need to be some action to effectively remove the whole or part of the crop that failed.

 

[Trigger Happy]

Barry, do you think the seed trade have grasped the enormity of the problems we are having growing this crop? I just cant see people taking this offer up, still too risky. I have been growing 500ac of the stuff....... this year sweet F.A.!!!

 

[principal skinner]

IMO the pressure from CSFB will be huge this season, you only have to look in crops at the moment and there are huge populations of adults present. I drove around a grass margin next to my OSR yesterday and the truck was covered in them.

Don't believe the hype, they eat expensive hybrids just as well as hss conventional, you would have to take leave of your senses around here to buy and plant hybrid seed this season.

I'm having a winter off from chasing pigeons and worrying about larvae damage.

The only winner from theses deals is the seed merchants and they try to make us feel grateful for being bent over a barrel price wise for years.