one for the MF die hards

[mo!]

Sure, that happens but generally tractor drivers won’t be better at engineering or designing tractors, same goes lorry drivers digger drivers etc.

Yes a lot of very clever chaps are good at designing farm implements and trailers etc, usually though A LOT of trial and error, Harry Ferguson after all, was famously a clever farmers son from Co Down.

All to often you hear “Sure what would they Know anyways....” attributed to Doctors, Teachers, Legislators, Engineers etc. It’s depressing.. Anti-intellectualism and the celebration of illiteracy, I swear I think the world is getting more and more like Mike Judges Idiocracy.

Time served mechanics and engineers are smarter than me. Designers with clean new thinking are smarter than me, they may not have physically spent the time getting their spuds roasted on a tractor seat but they will be taking a fresh take on the data being relayed back to them.

Hell, if it was up to farmers to design a tractor they would still have lift and draught levers ‘Because you need nothing else......’ clutch and grind gear levers ‘Because it works fine’ low capacity lift and hydraulics “Because it does what we need it to”

Have a think about what tractors from the 60’s and 70’s were on farms in the early ‘80s.

The same clean sheet design of the 3000’s would not have happened with a committee of farmers in 1986.

But here we are.

You're absolutely right, which is why it is so gobsmacking when they make such stupid errors like the toolbox debacle. Or the lack of grease points on the front axle, or the cab air suspension on the 64's or the clunking cab suspension on the 76's (which cost them a sale here), or the belleville washer in the D6 gearbox, or the water ingress issue on the brakes of the 56's (an issue that they fixed on the 3000s but brought back 30 years later!!!)

I recall talking to an AGCO man at LAMMA and explaining that I wouldn't be buying a 7618 and going blue instead despite having a 20 year run of red. I said "I'll buy one when they've finished it", he couldn't grasp that I wasn't prepared to buy a flawed prototype and finish their testing in the field. The 77's are much better by all account, funny that.

 

[Wim3065]

New transmission or old picture they reused?

 

[Henarar]

New transmission or old picture they reused? View attachment 895297

Looks simple enough

 

[daveydiesel1]

Looks simple enough

I was thinkin the opposite. Cogs dont look overly heavy duty to be taming the 200hp+ donkey up front

 

[Tarw Coch]

Sure, that happens but generally tractor drivers won’t be better at engineering or designing tractors, same goes lorry drivers digger drivers etc.

Yes a lot of very clever chaps are good at designing farm implements and trailers etc, usually though A LOT of trial and error, Harry Ferguson after all, was famously a clever farmers son from Co Down.

All to often you hear “Sure what would they Know anyways....” attributed to Doctors, Teachers, Legislators, Engineers etc. It’s depressing.. Anti-intellectualism and the celebration of illiteracy, I swear I think the world is getting more and more like Mike Judges Idiocracy.

Time served mechanics and engineers are smarter than me. Designers with clean new thinking are smarter than me, they may not have physically spent the time getting their spuds roasted on a tractor seat but they will be taking a fresh take on the data being relayed back to them.

Hell, if it was up to farmers to design a tractor they would still have lift and draught levers ‘Because you need nothing else......’ clutch and grind gear levers ‘Because it works fine’ low capacity lift and hydraulics “Because it does what we need it to”

Have a think about what tractors from the 60’s and 70’s were on farms in the early ‘80s.

The same clean sheet design of the 3000’s would not have happened with a committee of farmers in 1986.

But here we are.

I have no doubt your average designer is far cleverer than your average farmer yet from time to time they make the odd cockup and not allways on the technical stuff , sometimes on the simple stuff, things that are not only obvious to the end users but also the solutions are simple. How do such clever people manage to get simple stuff wrong?

 

[Cowabunga]

New transmission or old picture they reused? View attachment 895297

What is to be seen in that picture?
What I see are forward and reverse clutch packs, the front axle clutch, a mystery clutch above and behind the front axle pack.
Possibly a chain drive off the diff carrier or it might have some diff-lock functionality. There is apparently no range box shown unless that mystery clutch pack works a two range system, which combined with an 8 speed twin clutch powershift would double the ratios, but it needs 4 ranges for 32 total ratios to be competitive.
There may be an actuator for either the left hand brake or for an electrically actuated handbrake above the final drive.

Anything missed? Probably lots.

 

[manhill]

What is to be seen in that picture?
What I see are forward and reverse clutch packs, the front axle clutch, a mystery clutch above and behind the front axle pack.
Possibly a chain drive off the diff carrier or it might have some diff-lock functionality. There is apparently no range box shown unless that mystery clutch pack works a two range system, which combined with an 8 speed twin clutch powershift would double the ratios, but it needs 4 ranges for 32 total ratios to be competitive.
There may be an actuator for either the left hand brake or for an electrically actuated handbrake above the final drive.

Anything missed? Probably lots.

Rough repair cost range?

 

[Wellytrack]

I have no doubt your average designer is far cleverer than your average farmer yet from time to time they make the odd cockup and not allways on the technical stuff , sometimes on the simple stuff, things that are not only obvious to the end users but also the solutions are simple. How do such clever people manage to get simple stuff wrong?

Probably something similar to how anything is made, I’m sure a Nuclear sub has some fairly annoying and tiresome simple faults for those who have to live with it. It’s an incredibly complex piece of devastatingly powerful weaponry however.

Perfection is difficult, but as I’m sure you understand there is a balance between ergonomic comfort and practical use, so too perfection of design versus its design life and the budget of development. Space X for example experienced some losses early on, but a vessel capable of taking people to space and landing and reusing the rocket one would expect to be pretty near perfect.

 

[seedman stains]

pretty near perfect. Havent they got a box in the Agco family which does the job just right within reason more reinvention of the wheel /gearbox

 

[Tarw Coch]

pretty near perfect. Havent they got a box in the Agco family which does the job just right within reason more reinvention of the wheel /gearbox

A matter of opinion surely, I thought they were pretty much perfect when they built the 6200 series, I wouldn’t buy anything they produce today and I’ll be surprised if I’m impressed with their new model but will have to wait and see.

 

[Andrew]

I have no doubt your average designer is far cleverer than your average farmer yet from time to time they make the odd cockup and not allways on the technical stuff , sometimes on the simple stuff, things that are not only obvious to the end users but also the solutions are simple. How do such clever people manage to get simple stuff wrong?

The same as anyone else, they’re working to deadlines and in the rush things get missed / overlooked etc.

 

[dee]

A matter of opinion surely, I thought they were pretty much perfect when they built the 6200 series, I wouldn’t buy anything they produce today and I’ll be surprised if I’m impressed with their new model but will have to wait and see.

Good job there's plenty of manufacturers for you to choose from then.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Good job there's plenty of manufacturers for you to choose from then.

Absolutely, I have found a tractor I much prefer from Case, my money my choice, no doubt someone somewhere thinks the complete opposite.............although after nearly 40 years of masseys it is a little bit frustrating.
Why any of us get so attached to the machines we buy and their manufacturers makes no sense really yet most of us are guilty of it to some extent.

 

[manhill]

Absolutely, I have found a tractor I much prefer from Case, my money my choice, no doubt someone somewhere thinks the complete opposite.............although after nearly 40 years of masseys it is a little bit frustrating.
Why any of us get so attached to the machines we buy and their manufacturers makes no sense really yet most of us are guilty of it to some extent.

The devil you know!

 

[daveydiesel1]

The devil you know!

The dealer you know aswel, mabe could sometimes phrase them as the devil you know ?

 

[Tarw Coch]

The devil you know!

Nash, I absolutely hated the last massey I had, kept it about 8 months but it was destined to go within weeks of purchase however getting a deal I liked, it meant losing a lot of money and finding someone who’d give me a price to change wasn’t easy, talked to several local dealers who never came back with a price. Ended up buying from 200 miles away

 

[Cowabunga]

Rough repair cost range?

Since it is arriving from a planet far far away, I would suggest that it is fairly robust and reliable but should it go wrong, the repair cost would be up in the stratosphere.

Of course we should realise that it hasn't actually landed yet. Re-entry is perilous and there's many a slip twixt cup and lip.

 

[8100]

Why over complicate anything when this system has been used since the 1950's and earlier in Europe.

 

[Cowabunga]

Why over complicate anything when this system has been used since the 1950's and earlier in Europe.
View attachment 895422

Yes indeed. For the life of me I can't understand why the hydraulic/mechanical power-splitter transmission is used and made in various iterations when electric transmissions are so much simpler and more versatile. There must be some efficiency issues that I'm unaware of, otherwise it would surely be utilised.

 

[Rust]

Why over complicate anything when this system has been used since the 1950's and earlier in Europe.
View attachment 895422

Won't sell many spares with that set up