Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[Pond digger]

Hello @George from SJM Planning , could you advise what constitutes commencement of development with regard to planning consent? We’ve just bought a bungalow that has/had consent for an extension which had to be begun before last Sept, but previous owner did nothing beyond some basic excavation work.

thanks

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hello @George from SJM Planning , could you advise what constitutes commencement of development with regard to planning consent? We’ve just bought a bungalow that has/had consent for an extension which had to be begun before last Sept, but previous owner did nothing beyond some basic excavation work.

thanks

In that case I would suggest the planning consent has lapsed, generally a council would like to see some footings or similar before considering it as extant. Might be worth dropping an email to the planning department with the application reference number, some photos and an explaination of the situation and ask if they consider that works have started? If they say no then it will reuire you to go throught the planning process again but unless anything has radically changed in the intervening period then it would be hard for them to refuse.

 

[Pond digger]

In that case I would suggest the planning consent has lapsed, generally a council would like to see some footings or similar before considering it as extant. Might be worth dropping an email to the planning department with the application reference number, some photos and an explaination of the situation and ask if they consider that works have started? If they say no then it will reuire you to go throught the planning process again but unless anything has radically changed in the intervening period then it would be hard for them to refuse.

Many thanks for the prompt reply.

 

[dannewhouse]

Would I be right in thinking I can get permitted development for the full 10,000m2 now?
Above 5ha etc

Existing buildings are 10,452m2
2 new produce stores would be
669m2 stand alone
318m2 tagging onto gable end of existing, and going over an old 125m2 shed.

I'm within 30m of existing buildings but I want to go right upto my boundary not 5m away which I have read, I also read max of 20% of existing buildings? These sheds will actually be put up 1 year apart to give time to remove old building but may aswell get planning all done in 1 hit as can't have 2 permitted development within 2 years

 

[Still Farming]

Thanks for the offer , Ive decided that as its purely elevation side and end drawings to scale, I should stop being defeatist and do them myself using a conversion tool and a simplistic design , It may be a mistake , but there ye go , Ill let you know !

Conversion tool = Ruler.
100-1
10mm on plan equals 1meter in real life easy?

 

[dannewhouse]

Conversion tool = Ruler.
100-1
100 mm on plan equals 1meter in real life easy?

that would be 10:1
probably best to do 100:1 (10mm on paper = 1m on site)

 

[Still Farming]

that would be 10:1
probably best to do 100:1 (10mm on paper = 1m on site)

100 cm in a metre.

 

[dannewhouse]

100 cm in a metre.

10mm on plan = 1m ?
10mm plan = 1m = 1000mm agree? = 100cm as well?
1mm plan = 100mm agree? therefore 1:100?

 

[dannewhouse]

sorry don't know where ive picked up cm or something be reyt.

ive now seen it! originally you put 100mm on plan = 1m youve now corrected that to read 10mm on plan = 1m.
shows up where ive quoted your post.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Would I be right in thinking I can get permitted development for the full 10,000m2 now?
Above 5ha etc

Existing buildings are 10,452m2
2 new produce stores would be
669m2 stand alone
318m2 tagging onto gable end of existing, and going over an old 125m2 shed.

I'm within 30m of existing buildings but I want to go right upto my boundary not 5m away which I have read, I also read max of 20% of existing buildings? These sheds will actually be put up 1 year apart to give time to remove old building but may aswell get planning all done in 1 hit as can't have 2 permitted development within 2 years

Sorry @dannewhouse your question got lost in a mess of scale factors! I would suggest you check your proposal against Class A of the attached document, as without the full information I can't say for sure but from the information you have provided you seem ok. There is noting in the GPDO to stop you building up to the boundary and there is nothing about the existing buildings.

Based on the existing floor area you already have, and the fact you will effectively be doubling it I would suggest any application is supported by a covering letter stating why the buildings are required as an ill informed case officer may question the need and cite A.1 (d) Development is not permitted by Class A if it would involve the provision of a building, structure or works not designed for agricultural purposes. If you tell them why it is needed for agriculture then it makes it harder for them to question it, if you don't tell them it is open for interpretation.

 

[dannewhouse]

Sorry @dannewhouse your question got lost in a mess of scale factors! I would suggest you check your proposal against Class A of the attached document, as without the full information I can't say for sure but from the information you have provided you seem ok. There is noting in the GPDO to stop you building up to the boundary and there is nothing about the existing buildings.

Based on the existing floor area you already have, and the fact you will effectively be doubling it I would suggest any application is supported by a covering letter stating why the buildings are required as an ill informed case officer may question the need and cite A.1 (d) Development is not permitted by Class A if it would involve the provision of a building, structure or works not designed for agricultural purposes. If you tell them why it is needed for agriculture then it makes it harder for them to question it, if you don't tell them it is open for interpretation.

Thanks for that, there are a few old buildings which I will detail in the application that I didn't include in my calcs, yes I am planning on putting a heck of a lot of shed up but it's no use messing about in small sheds. The big 1 will be a grain store with straw in a few bays at the end, (internal gable separating the two) The extension when put up will be used for straw in the first half of winter then to calve cows into (I realise this isn't the case according to planning for pd) the grain store is to replace 2 small sheds and a grain tower and allow room for milling.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for that, there are a few old buildings which I will detail in the application that I didn't include in my calcs, yes I am planning on putting a heck of a lot of shed up but it's no use messing about in small sheds. The big 1 will be a grain store with straw in a few bays at the end, (internal gable separating the two) The extension when put up will be used for straw in the first half of winter then to calve cows into (I realise this isn't the case according to planning for pd) the grain store is to replace 2 small sheds and a grain tower and allow room for milling.

I would include all that information in a covering letter, maybe with a drawing of which buildings are to be removed, which buildings are to be retained and the new ones. Is the area used for calving within 400m of a protected building (houses etc) if not I would include it for clarity and to stop questions in the future.

Alternatively, you can quote Paragraph D.1 (3):

(3) The circumstances referred to in paragraphs A.2(1)(a) and B.5(1) of this Part are—
(a) that no other suitable building or structure, 400 metres or more from the curtilage of a
protected building, is available to accommodate the livestock; and
(b) (i) that the need to accommodate the livestock arises from quarantine requirements, or
an emergency due to another building or structure in which the livestock could
otherwise be accommodated being unavailable because it has been damaged or
destroyed by fire, flood or storm; or
(ii) in the case of animals normally kept out of doors, they require temporary
accommodation in a building or other structure because they are sick or giving birth
or newly born, or to provide shelter against extreme weather conditions.

Under D.1 (3) (b) (ii) you can house outdoor animals within 400m of a protected building for birthing so this would be accpetable in your case. If you wanted to be transparent then I would certainly quote this paragarph in your letter.

I would be quite happy to quote for doing this all for you if required. Drop me a PM if you are interested.

 

[dannewhouse]

I would include all that information in a covering letter, maybe with a drawing of which buildings are to be removed, which buildings are to be retained and the new ones. Is the area used for calving within 400m of a protected building (houses etc) if not I would include it for clarity and to stop questions in the future.

Alternatively, you can quote Paragraph D.1 (3):

(3) The circumstances referred to in paragraphs A.2(1)(a) and B.5(1) of this Part are—
(a) that no other suitable building or structure, 400 metres or more from the curtilage of a
protected building, is available to accommodate the livestock; and
(b) (i) that the need to accommodate the livestock arises from quarantine requirements, or
an emergency due to another building or structure in which the livestock could
otherwise be accommodated being unavailable because it has been damaged or
destroyed by fire, flood or storm; or
(ii) in the case of animals normally kept out of doors, they require temporary
accommodation in a building or other structure because they are sick or giving birth
or newly born, or to provide shelter against extreme weather conditions.

Under D.1 (3) (b) (ii) you can house outdoor animals within 400m of a protected building for birthing so this would be accpetable in your case. If you wanted to be transparent then I would certainly quote this paragarph in your letter.

I would be quite happy to quote for doing this all for you if required. Drop me a PM if you are interested.

Thanks for that, I may we'll be in touch.
I don't want a stipulation that the old must be removed before the new as grain will have to be somewhere,
Only house within 400m would be farm house, I don't want to tell them I'm using it for stock too much as definitely want it pd.
Last application I basically sent in an areal view of farm stating what each building did and why it couldn't be used and 3 possible locations and why my chosen was the best.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for that, I may we'll be in touch.
I don't want a stipulation that the old must be removed before the new as grain will have to be somewhere,
Only house within 400m would be farm house, I don't want to tell them I'm using it for stock too much as definitely want it pd.
Last application I basically sent in an areal view of farm stating what each building did and why it couldn't be used and 3 possible locations and why my chosen was the best.

I always advise clients to be transparent as retospective can get expensive! Just my professional advice but it's up to you.

 

[dannewhouse]

I always advise clients to be transparent as retospective can get expensive! Just my professional advice but it's up to you.

I agree with you, I just don't want to end up needing full planning.

 

[onthehoof]

If I want to convert steel framed shed to residential under class Q, does it have to have been empty/unused for a certain period beforehand?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

If I want to convert steel framed shed to residential under class Q, does it have to have been empty/unused for a certain period beforehand?

No, as long as it was constructed over 10 years ago and it's current or last use was agricultural then it is a good candidate.

 

[Still Farming]

No, as long as it was constructed over 10 years ago and it's current or last use was agricultural then it is a good candidate.

Only in England though is it???

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Only in England though is it???

Yes it is, I didn't check @onthehoof location

 

[onthehoof]

Yes it is, I didn't check @onthehoof location

Cambs not Carms luckily