Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[Grass And Grain]

It must be within the residential curtilage to benefit from Permitted Development. Applying for change of use of agricultural land to garden does not automatically extend the curtilage. When making the application to enlarge the garden make sure to state "change of use of agricultural land to residential garden including extension of residential curtilage"

I see, so as long as the application is for residential garden including residential curtilage, then the usual permitted dev rights will now also be available on the new bit of garden.

Thank you George.

More thinking to do, but will certainly bare you in mind if/when I get to doing anything. Bit of long term planning/thinking to do.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I see, so as long as the application is for residential garden including residential curtilage, then the usual permitted dev rights will now also be available on the new bit of garden.

Thank you George.

More thinking to do, but will certainly bare you in mind if/when I get to doing anything. Bit of long term planning/thinking to do.

Thank you - would certainly be interested in looking at it for you.

A word of caution - even thoug adding the 'residential curtilage' to the application gets you one step there they may decide to remove Class E by planning consition so you would still need planning permission. It may be easier to apply for the annexe and garden extension all at the same time!

 

[Kentjagman]

Well done George!

 

[Alwaysinit]

I have ran out of room/options for another shed in my existing yard. The next best option is just directly across the road from my existing yard.
Will I need to seek full planning approval for a new grain/machinery store(no livestock here) now I am crossing the road? Maybe something like 100x50x20 and I'm in N.I.
Thanks

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I have ran out of room/options for another shed in my existing yard. The next best option is just directly across the road from my existing yard.
Will I need to seek full planning approval for a new grain/machinery store(no livestock here) now I am crossing the road? Maybe something like 100x50x20 and I'm in N.I.
Thanks

I am not 100% on NI Planning Policy but if it was in England it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Alwaysinit]

Thank you.
I will check it out with a local planner but atleast you have given me some hope

 

[Ross121]

Morning
Quick question
The 28 day 10,000ft allowance- can that be spilt between two sheds or is it one building?
tia
Ross

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Morning
Quick question
The 28 day 10,000ft allowance- can that be spilt between two sheds or is it one building?
tia
Ross

It can be split between multiple buildings.

 

[Ross121]

It can be split between multiple buildings.

Thank you

 

[sant2468]

On September 12th, I submitted a class Q - Change of use of agricultural building to 1no. larger dwellinghouse - application to convert an old cowshed to a dewlinghouse, and that same day, the application was validated.

About three weeks ago, the application received comments:
1. The local town council remarked that there were no objections.
2. As long as we adhere to the parking in the plan, there were no objections from highways agancy either.

Looking in the local planning portal, the deadline for determination was, November 7, and I have not yet received a decision regarding my application from the planning office.

What effect does this have on my Class Q application ?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

On September 12th, I submitted a class Q - Change of use of agricultural building to 1no. larger dwellinghouse - application to convert an old cowshed to a dewlinghouse, and that same day, the application was validated.

About three weeks ago, the application received comments:
1. The local town council remarked that there were no objections.
2. As long as we adhere to the parking in the plan, there were no objections from highways agancy either.

Looking in the local planning portal, the deadline for determination was, October 7, and I have not yet received a decision regarding my application from the planning office.

What effect does this have on my Class Q application ?

I believe the website is incorrect - it should be 7th November (today) - 56 days after the 12th September. The regulations state:

(11) The development must not begin before the occurrence of one of the following—
(a) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice of their determination that such prior approval is not required;
(b) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice giving their prior approval; or
(c) the expiry of 56 days following the date on which the application under sub-paragraph (2) was received by the local planning authority without the authority notifying the applicant as to whether prior approval is given or refused.

So providing you haven't heard from them by midnight you may legally start the work tomorrow - this is known as deemed consent. Tomorrow morning I would email the Case Officer and Head of Planning (copying in the generic planning mailbox) stating that under the stipulations of Class W Paragraph 11(c) of Part 3, Schedule 2 of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended) the Local Planning Authority have not determined the application within the appropriate timeframe and that you are proceeding with the conversion.

HOWEVER, the conversion is only lawful if it does indeed meet all the criteria of Class Q - should the build progress and it comes to light that it didn't fully comply then they will enforce against unlawful development. Once they do so you would lose the right to reapply for Class Q as the building had been take out of agricultural use by the construction works leaving you in no mans land.

My advice would be to submit the same plans as a full planning application but make any amendments that you couldn't do under Class Q (larger windows, recladding, larger cutilage etc) and state that there is already a lawful permission for Class Q as a material fallback position but you wish to make these amendments which you couldn't do under Class Q.

 

[sant2468]

I believe the website is incorrect - it should be 7th November (today) - 56 days after the 12th September. The regulations state:

(11) The development must not begin before the occurrence of one of the following—
(a) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice of their determination that such prior approval is not required;
(b) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice giving their prior approval; or
(c) the expiry of 56 days following the date on which the application under sub-paragraph (2) was received by the local planning authority without the authority notifying the applicant as to whether prior approval is given or refused.

So providing you haven't heard from them by midnight you may legally start the work tomorrow - this is known as deemed consent. Tomorrow morning I would email the Case Officer and Head of Planning (copying in the generic planning mailbox) stating that under the stipulations of Class W Paragraph 11(c) of Part 3, Schedule 2 of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended) the Local Planning Authority have not determined the application within the appropriate timeframe and that you are proceeding with the conversion.

HOWEVER, the conversion is only lawful if it does indeed meet all the criteria of Class Q - should the build progress and it comes to light that it didn't fully comply then they will enforce against unlawful development. Once they do so you would lose the right to reapply for Class Q as the building had been take out of agricultural use by the construction works leaving you in no mans land.

My advice would be to submit the same plans as a full planning application but make any amendments that you couldn't do under Class Q (larger windows, recladding, larger cutilage etc) and state that there is already a lawful permission for Class Q as a material fallback position but you wish to make these amendments which you couldn't do under Class Q.

Sorry,may bad .. you are right ... I meant to state 7th November.

What if we emailed them, like you stated ... do we then have more rights considering we meet critria (c) above and can we sue for any loss of earnings due to the build if they tried to over turn the descion due to the fact they did not reply back within 56 days ?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Sorry,may bad .. you are right ... I meant to state 7th November.

What if we emailed them, like you stated ... do we then have more rights considering we meet critria (c) above and can we sue for any loss of earnings due to the build if they tried to over turn the descion due to the fact they did not reply back within 56 days ?

They have no recourse to overturn the decision once it is past 56 days - what the email does is put them on notice that you are doing the work whether they like it or not. Once the 56 days has passed and they have not met any of the three criteria it is totally out of their hands. What you would like them to do (which has happened to us recently) is that they issue a decision stating Prior Approval is Not Required or Notification of Prior Approval No Juristiction - either of which would close the case in your favour. They will need to close it somehow otherwise it will always show as undetermined on their system.

 

[Kidds]

On September 12th, I submitted a class Q - Change of use of agricultural building to 1no. larger dwellinghouse - application to convert an old cowshed to a dewlinghouse, and that same day, the application was validated.

About three weeks ago, the application received comments:
1. The local town council remarked that there were no objections.
2. As long as we adhere to the parking in the plan, there were no objections from highways agancy either.

Looking in the local planning portal, the deadline for determination was, November 7, and I have not yet received a decision regarding my application from the planning office.

What effect does this have on my Class Q application ?

What do you mean by larger?
Larger than the existing farmhouse is OK but larger than the existing footprint isn't. That would be their way to say your application was not legal in the first place so the 56 days means nothing at all.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

What do you mean by larger?
Larger than the existing farmhouse is OK but larger than the existing footprint isn't. That would be their way to say your application was not legal in the first place so the 56 days means nothing at all.

Larger dwellinghouse means over 100m3 but less than 465m2 - there are two classes of dwellinghouses in Class Q - larger and smaller. You can do a maximum of 5 dwellings but only 2 can be larger dwellinghouses.

 

[sant2468]

They have no recourse to overturn the decision once it is past 56 days - what the email does is put them on notice that you are doing the work whether they like it or not. Once the 56 days has passed and they have not met any of the three criteria it is totally out of their hands. What you would like them to do (which has happened to us recently) is that they issue a decision stating Prior Approval is Not Required or Notification of Prior Approval No Juristiction - either of which would close the case in your favour. They will need to close it somehow otherwise it will always show as undetermined on their system.

... You state in your reply "Once the 56 days has passed and they have not met any of the three criteria ..." Is this "any" or "one" of the following ??

(11) The development must not begin before the occurrence of ONE of the following—
(a) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice of their determination that such prior approval is not required;
(b) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice giving their prior approval; or
(c) the expiry of 56 days following the date on which the application under sub-paragraph (2) was received by the local planning authority without the authority notifying the applicant as to whether prior approval is given or refused.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

... You state in your reply "Once the 56 days has passed and they have not met any of the three criteria ..." Is this "any" or "one" of the following ??

(11) The development must not begin before the occurrence of ONE of the following—
(a) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice of their determination that such prior approval is not required;
(b) the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice giving their prior approval; or
(c) the expiry of 56 days following the date on which the application under sub-paragraph (2) was received by the local planning authority without the authority notifying the applicant as to whether prior approval is given or refused.

If you are to quote the three then I would say ONE but if just referring to them I would say ANY. I don't think either is wrong, it is more of a grammar thing I think.

 

[sant2468]

If you are to quote the three then I would say ONE but if just referring to them I would say ANY. I don't think either is wrong, it is more of a grammar thing I think.

So it's been over 56 days (their offices closed at 5pm) and we have not heard anything from the planning office today. So that means we technically can classify our class q planning application as the status of "Prior Approval is Not Required" ? Can I now get out of the bottle of bubbly ?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

So it's been over 56 days (their offices closed at 5pm) and we have not heard anything from the planning office today. So that means we technically can classify our class q planning application as the status of "Prior Approval is Not Required" ? Can I now get out of the bottle of bubbly ?

From what you have told me I think you can pop a cork or two.

 

[sant2468]

From what you have told me I think you can pop a cork or two.

thanks as always George !!! I assume I should get my planning consultant to send the email ?