Plumbo's newsletter

[SilliamWhale]

Reading the new newsletter and the article comparing fungicides to mega fos etc.

Now my first instinct is that it is a low disease year and but is anyone doing this and thinking instead of Fungicides you'd be willing to use mega fos instead? And would you make more/less money?

 

[SilliamWhale]

 

[Clive]

I was reading that today

What exactly are megabacters ? And what is actually in mega fos ?

Is plumbs on here ? If not could someone in contact invite him please as his input was always of interest

 

[Dan Powell]

Andy Howard showed us a trial of this stuff he was doing down in Kent on his BASE day. Looked good, but it has been a low disease year, and no idea what it's like now.

Andy...?

Megabacters is just their name for a range of beneficial bacteria selected to colonise the wheat leaves and out-compete any disease. Kind of like compost tea. I think Megafos contains them and a food source for the bacteria (presumeably molasses) and some nutrition.

I'm tempted to try it, but I'd like a bit more trial data...

 

[warksfarmer]

Cost is not cheap but cheaper than a normal fung program.

 

[Clive]

Cost is not cheap but cheaper than a normal fung program.

If its just compost tea and molasses it should be very cheap !

If its worth it or not is less down to price and more results

 

[Clive]

I get the theory with beneficial bacteria and its sound science

However as Liz Stockdale pointed out adding even a few million of them per ha is pissing in the wind a bit when you consider how many billion are in just a kg of soil

I need convincing

 

[Dan Powell]

I think the food source and the fact you would do 3-4 applications at T0, T1, T2 etc would give you plenty of them?

 

[Clive]

I think the food source and the fact you would do 3-4 applications at T0, T1, T2 etc would give you plenty of them?

Not sure, it's still a drop in the ocean in terms of number surely ??

Some good trail data would help convince me, the theory is sound

Also interested to know how bacteria take to being tank mixed with herbicides etc ?

 

[Andy Howard]

Not sure, it's still a drop in the ocean in terms of number surely ??

Some good trail data would help convince me, the theory is sound

Also interested to know how bacteria take to being tank mixed with herbicides etc ?

They do not mix with herbicides. It has nothing to do with numbers in the soil, the idea is to cover the leaf surface to out compete disease. Looking at trials today with a couple of people. Clear differences. Full fungicides plus biology and nutrition was best. Still had four clean live leaves and the largest flag leaves. The next best was just bravo plus bio and nutrition. Had four leaves, bottom leaf was paler and not as healthy as other plant. Next was no fungicide plus bio and nutrition. Bottom leaf had gone but plant was less stressed than fungicides only and had bigger flag leaves. Worst was fungicides only. Small flag leaves, bottom leaf gone. Most important thing will be what goes in the tank of the combine. First time used megabacters so no experience really.

 

[Clive]

They do not mix with herbicides. It has nothing to do with numbers in the soil, the idea is to cover the leaf surface to out compete disease. Looking at trials today with a couple of people. Clear differences. Full fungicides plus biology and nutrition was best. Still had four clean live leaves and the largest flag leaves. The next best was just bravo plus bio and nutrition. Had four leaves, bottom leaf was paler and not as healthy as other plant. Next was no fungicide plus bio and nutrition. Bottom leaf had gone but plant was less stressed than fungicides only and had bigger flag leaves. Worst was fungicides only. Small flag leaves, bottom leaf gone. Most important thing will be what goes in the tank of the combine. First time used megabacters so no experience really.

Interesting stuff

Any pics ?

Great to see some trials backing up the theory and maybe application of beneficially to the leaf is a lot more realistic than trying to change numbers in soil

Is the glenside beneficial aimed at soil or leaf ? Is it the same bacteria ?

 

[Richard III]

As the name suggests, it's not just beneficial bacteria, but phosphite as well. I have used some, but unfortunately due to the season the bravo only control is just as clean at the moment. May be more will show up nearer harvest, it will be interesting to see how it performs in a higher disease pressure year.

 

[Honest john]

Andy is doing some great trials with all these new or updated products.
Andy. I assume by nutrition you mean Foli N ?

I have used the Mega Fos as a T0 on Wheat. Followed by normal Fungicide's + Foli N. Which now has some bacteria in the mix.
I have not tried the Bio N. Yet.
I am very interested in Andy's results.
Sadly as always busy with Potatoes, I don't have the time to do the trail work.
I would like to try a small area with no Fungicide's at all next year.

The idea is to put say 150 kg Urea on early March. Then follow up with Mega Fos, Bio N, and Foli N, and some traces where needed to carry the crop to harvest. No nasty Fungicides killing our soil life. Or striping the plants natural protection.
Still leaves the Herbicide to deal with. Maybe put some Vitaplex in with it to help repair the damage from the Herbicide.
The Bio should give another 60 kg min from the air and soil.
If we could get the Herbs out of the way before starting with the Mega Fos, Bio N, Foli N, at T1 that may be helpful.
Surly Plumbo could find better words than me.
Now started with Mega Fos on the Potatoes.

 

[Clive]

Not being able to apply with herbicides makes a bit of work, can they be mixed with fungicides or is that another pass

 

[Honest john]

Not being able to apply with herbicides makes a bit of work, can they be mixed with fungicides or is that another pass

Clive.
You can mix with Fungicides. They are very resilient down to very cold or very hot though the sprayer and in Mixes. We had a meeting with Robert and Neil Fuller and they are very excited. Yes we need to know much more.
Neil would like to add these products to increase output. Others would like to cut back or cut out the Fungicides and N Fert.
I guess I am going more down Neils line of thought for now, but would like to cut out the Fungicides and half the N Fert. That's my hope anyway.

 

[Honest john]

Plumbo is also going back to the Cereal's site to review the small plots.

 

[farming4profit]

This is slightly 'off-topic' but I am aware that application of phosphorous based fertiliser such as Resistan from Mandops (applied 1l/ha every 14 days after 3 pairs of leaves visible) is proving highly successful on one farm in Lincolnshire for keeping the crop free of Downy Mildew, plus boosting yields. The grower claims his spring beans are the highest gross margin on farm (out-performing winter wheat) year on year (I guess current prices help there too). Apparently it is well recognised in places like Germany that this fertiliser has fungicidal properties (organo phosphate), but no-one wishes to market the product as such as it would then fall under PSD control and trial costs would spiral. Fertiliser is 10% the cost of Folio Gold. Cheaper Metalaxyl products available of course.

 

[Honest john]

This is slightly 'off-topic' but I am aware that application of phosphorous based fertiliser such as Resistan from Mandops (applied 1l/ha every 14 days after 3 pairs of leaves visible) is proving highly successful on one farm in Lincolnshire for keeping the crop free of Downy Mildew, plus boosting yields. The grower claims his spring beans are the highest gross margin on farm (out-performing winter wheat) year on year (I guess current prices help there too). Apparently it is well recognised in places like Germany that this fertiliser has fungicidal properties (organo phosphate), but no-one wishes to market the product as such as it would then fall under PSD control and trial costs would spiral. Fertiliser is 10% the cost of Folio Gold. Cheaper Metalaxyl products available of course.

Yes in Onions Po3 /o5 Phosphite is now integral in the programme for Downy Mildew control. All crops in fact it helps.

The real unknown is how much if at all can we cut DOWN or cut OUT fungicides. More trial work please as the risk on field scale is great on the grower.

 

[Andy Howard]

The real unknown is how much if at all can we cut DOWN or cut OUT fungicides. More trial work please as the risk on field scale is great on the grower.[/quote]

This is the real problem. I would love to cut out all fungicides and probably could do it to a certain extent but at a cost. The trial work I have done seems to suggest that financially fungicides plus bio and nutrition is the best way to go. That is backed up to by Neil Fullers trials. We are growing Solstice too which is very prone to disease. I will try to get some photos of the plants.

 

[Andy Howard]

This is slightly 'off-topic' but I am aware that application of phosphorous based fertiliser such as Resistan from Mandops (applied 1l/ha every 14 days after 3 pairs of leaves visible) is proving highly successful on one farm in Lincolnshire for keeping the crop free of Downy Mildew, plus boosting yields. The grower claims his spring beans are the highest gross margin on farm (out-performing winter wheat) year on year (I guess current prices help there too). Apparently it is well recognised in places like Germany that this fertiliser has fungicidal properties (organo phosphate), but no-one wishes to market the product as such as it would then fall under PSD control and trial costs would spiral. Fertiliser is 10% the cost of Folio Gold. Cheaper Metalaxyl products available of course.

copper, zinc and sulphur have fungicidal activity too.