Pool prices

[curlietailz]

Pool sells every day ?
So takes an average

I sell when I consider the best price
Certainly not every day
So it’s quite possible to beat an average

 

[Brisel]

Pool sells every day ?
So takes an average

I sell when I consider the best price
Certainly not every day
So it’s quite possible to beat an average

That wouldn’t be a successful pool, would it?

 

[Banana Bar]

Pool sells every day ?
So takes an average

I sell when I consider the best price
Certainly not every day
So it’s quite possible to beat an average

A tracker sells everyday, a pool doesn’t.

 

[Hjwise]

We used to use the Openfield pool, surely they have to please the suppliers and consumers. The consumers need a fairly consistent supply throughout the year. Whilst I’m sure they do their best to time sales correctly there will times that they have to sell rather than wait for a better time.

 

[Brisel]

That’s what futures are for. Separate pricing from supply. There are more tonnes sold by growers at the lower end of the market than the top!

 

[Frodo]

A tracker sells everyday, a pool doesn’t.

Are there pools which operate as purely trackers?

I am mainly malting barley and it doesn’t seem to be an option.

 

[farmerfred86]

When you find a rep who says "no, you don't want to be selling yet" you know you've found a good one. Last one we had like that retired a bit ago now.

spot on!

 

[jjm]

Any more info coming forward with regards to pool prices?. Grainco have historically done well ......

 

[clodshopper]

Frontier Harvest Pool Wheat, Feed £160, Biscuit £172 from memory

Frontier Oct - Dec £170.75 (£10.41 more than harvest pool)

 

[T Hectares]

5 years ago we sold everything in Pools, now nothing
I wouldn’t claim to have achieved drastically improved results but we have control of sales, we can be more flexible and respond to cash flow better
What used to infuriate us about pools was that we wouldn’t know how much grain was worth as we were loading it out, we would find out 28 days later, at least selling ourselves we can budget more accurately, and if we have sold a parcel poorly, at least we would know about it and not have an unwelcome surprise after the grain had gone!!
The one pool I did quite like was the Cefetra Upside pool, a set min price, a 50/50 split of any upside and a pre payment at the end of the year before spring movement

 

[clodshopper]

5 years ago we sold everything in Pools, now nothing
I wouldn’t claim to have achieved drastically improved results but we have control of sales, we can be more flexible and respond to cash flow better
What used to infuriate us about pools was that we wouldn’t know how much grain was worth as we were loading it out, we would find out 28 days later, at least selling ourselves we can budget more accurately, and if we have sold a parcel poorly, at least we would know about it and not have an unwelcome surprise after the grain had gone!!
The one pool I did quite like was the Cefetra Upside pool, a set min price, a 50/50 split of any upside and a pre payment at the end of the year before spring movement

I quite agree, I do less and less pool sales. I too hate the secrecy of their performance until the end and the lack of transparency. You are just presented with a figure and expected to give everyone involved a pat on the back!!

 

[Brisel]

5 years ago we sold everything in Pools, now nothing
I wouldn’t claim to have achieved drastically improved results but we have control of sales, we can be more flexible and respond to cash flow better
What used to infuriate us about pools was that we wouldn’t know how much grain was worth as we were loading it out, we would find out 28 days later, at least selling ourselves we can budget more accurately, and if we have sold a parcel poorly, at least we would know about it and not have an unwelcome surprise after the grain had gone!!
The one pool I did quite like was the Cefetra Upside pool, a set min price, a 50/50 split of any upside and a pre payment at the end of the year before spring movement

When I used to use Openfield pools I could ring and see how much of the pool was sold and at what approximate price at any one time.

I used the Cefetra Upside pools too. The critical thing with them was to fix the base price at a good point. I put 1000t in split between malting barley and wheat but one of the two usually ended up performing badly and the costs meant that the upside wasn’t great but it was a good tool with a floor price. Frontier had a similar product at the time for wheat only.

 

[T Hectares]

When I used to use Openfield pools I could ring and see how much of the pool was sold and at what approximate price at any one time.

I used the Cefetra Upside pools too. The critical thing with them was to fix the base price at a good point. I put 1000t in split between malting barley and wheat but one of the two usually ended up performing badly and the costs meant that the upside wasn’t great but it was a good tool with a floor price. Frontier had a similar product at the time for wheat only.

Yes, Openfield were one of the more transparent

If nothing else, I feel more involved selling my own grain, it makes me gain more understanding of what’s going on in the market

 

[Brisel]

Are CMG still active? Much more grower involvement in that. I went to a meeting at Rooksnest not far from you when Elved Philips was trying to woo me into committing my tonnage.

 

[T Hectares]

Are CMG still active? Much more grower involvement in that. I went to a meeting at Rooksnest not far from you when Elved Philips was trying to woo me into committing my tonnage.

Yes, I used to be in that group, it’s Elved’s knowledge and insight that inspired me to quit pools !!
Good guy, Elved

 

[lloyd]

Sell it yourself it's more fun than a day out at the races.

 

[MrNoo]

Used to be in the Openfield pools years ago when father ran the farm but as soon as he retired we were out. I think with the volatility we see now pools are maybe not the best way, fine when WW was £65/t with very little movement during the marketing season. I know a lot like to draw money early doors but is that a good enough reason?
I enjoy selling it myself.
My average this year, everything sold by Nov was £189.30/t for WW (Group 1), sure I could have got more by holding onto it but wanted sheds cleared so off it went.
Not sure how that compares to pools for that period
But I'd be pretty p*ssed off if a pool paid me around the £160-165/t for the same time period.

 

[Adeptandy]

Used to be in the Openfield pools years ago when father ran the farm but as soon as he retired we were out. I think with the volatility we see now pools are maybe not the best way, fine when WW was £65/t with very little movement during the marketing season. I know a lot like to draw money early doors but is that a good enough reason?
I enjoy selling it myself.
My average this year, everything sold by Nov was £189.30/t for WW (Group 1), sure I could have got more by holding onto it but wanted sheds cleared so off it went.
Not sure how that compares to pools for that period
But I'd be pretty p*ssed off if a pool paid me around the £160-165/t for the same time period.

Feed pool was that range £160 plus for harvesting movement £170 plus for biscuit, milling was higher.

 

[Steevo]

The trouble I find with pools is that in the current climate I'm really not sure that pre-harvest sales pay. The grain trade always reckon on having a "bumper harvest" which I'm sure is their way of shifting the market and keeping a lid on prices pre-harvest. Once it's in the barn and onwards, there is a clearer picture of what grain everyone in UK has and how the import/export situation is and reality begins to set in a bit.

Pools like forward selling because locking in a "profit" reduces any potential risk. If you're running a few thousand acres, selling 20% forward at a modest price seems a prudent.

Trouble is, if you find at harvest that you only have 50 or 60% of the grain in the barn, suddenly that 20% could turn into 40 or 50% sold. In turn you're then left with half your harvest sold at a poor price, and it's hard to make the difference up on the improved prices.


Rarely does the grain price fall after harvest.....so where is the incentive to take a risk on tonnage (and therefore price/margin). Locking in a small profit on 20% is one thing, but that turning into half your annual output due to a lower harvested yield is a whole different ball game and is actually increasing risk not reducing it!

 

[MrNoo]

Yes you hear it all the time, I've sold X loads pre harvest for £155/t and then it is always followed by the immortal words "if that's the lowest price I sell it for I'll be happy!"
Almost like it's some justification to themselves.
I have a great friend who sold a fair bit forward, I made a point of texting him every time the grain price went up just to take the pee!!
Havent sold anything forward for 7 or so years now