Potato planting plans for 2015

[Honest john]

@Honest john going back a few years I had piper in a blue bag with honest john printed on it, was they your potatoes? They were great eating potatoes

Yes.
I would bet the middle men are doing nicely while finishing us lot off.
For price info please use PM.

 

[Niels]

Niels.
Over here in places crop is being Disced / ploughed in. Reasons mixed from slug to won't keep to excess of storage.
Some fenland crop won't store more than a few days & is being processed at no money or Disced in.
This is not bull it's fact.
Yields you are talking 30 tpa.
Mine are 11 tpa - 20 tpa with two fields to lift. The last three years have been about 15 tpa sold this year could be that or less depending on rot issues. In the fens we have slug & PCN which hits costs & yields.
We need £ 3000 ac stored packed & loaded in 25kg. That's £200 ton.
There is nearly always some that has to go to a factory which pulls back the average. Storeage is Boxes.

So you can see why we are struggling. Now the profit has gone from Beet & Wheat & Rape. The spuds can't be carried.

Two growers in the west 18 tpa the other less so where are these huge crops apart from Holland.

The silly thing is we have good demand for the crop. But the COP is higher than the trade will pay.

Pity but that's how it is.

None left on the land here, well harvest has been done for a few weeks already. There is always the hope things will get better! Slugs is becoming a slight concern here but we don't grow rape so it takes a lot longer for them to develop. This year was dry so you see very little of them. In the polders worms a bigger issue. Rats and mice are a big issue in this years carrot crops. No frost allowed them to breed freely throughout the season. Some samples have damage on 75%.

High yields and low growing costs are needed in order to carry on. Why we can produce for less money in Western Europe. The growers with marginal land and crops are the first to pack up. Due to tight crop rotations PCN and the like are still very worrying but people have learned from that. In fairness growers shouldn't be shipping these potatoes to the industry but disc it in or find another use? Factory will only have a larger supply and buy less killing off the free trade? The demand is there, just the price isn't because there is plenty of crop available.

On the Quoter it was reported from a machinery trader that Belgium were bringing a Quoter back for spuds. Based on the last three years of cropping. Hence the increase in plantings.

Not heard about this at all. Seems very very unlikely to me! Belgium is increasing plantings as they have rapidly developed as the number 2 player on the processing market. Especially for fries.

We used to grow onions for the wholesale markets but couldn't compete with the Dutch delivered in prices. I do not know how they can continue to grow them at the prices they get back? I've heard onions are only £80 pt bagged here and they have similar growing costs to potatoes.
They should be cutting back on potatoes not planning more. Why not have less and make a profit every year rather than boom and bust?

Onions really is a hit and miss affair. You have to grow them ten years. One year they'll be top price, two years they will be average, four years will be marginally/loss and one year you'll have to put them in a big hole somewhere. That is how it goes. Most big arable farmers made money with their onions, not with potatoes. Same with new machinery. That is always bought with onion money, not with funds coming from potatoes. Onion prices are currently €70-80 pt off the farm (bulk) with crop being sold forward in the new year for €100-110 pt. The demand is huge, have never had such good export figures.

Because prices are low (again) for onions acreage will be cut back next year, especially with occasional growers. Very sensitive market. Maybe it'll be filled in with slightly more potatoes. However, when I speak to seed company's they are selling a lot more wheat seed because less roots are grown (potatoes, onions and beet). Also, we have a large starch potato growing business in the North-east of the country (Avebe). Disaster prices here also which means growers have switched to growing ware/processing potatoes plus onion. This will continue throughout the next years so the total acreage certainly won't decrease.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

Thanks Niels.

Do they not have onion white rot over there? Or have they a treatment for it?
This is the main reason we gave up onions, too much white rot after 60 years of quite a tight rotation. Was getting 25-50% wastage in the final year. Some fields were up to 15 years between crops.

 

[Niels]

Thanks Niels.

Do they not have onion white rot over there? Or have they a treatment for it?
This is the main reason we gave up onions, too much white rot after 60 years of quite a tight rotation. Was getting 25-50% wastage in the final year. Some fields were up to 15 years between crops.

Certainly around everywhere. Can tackle it with cover corps (slightly) and chemical treatment of the soil. However the latter is getting more and more difficult with new regulation. Now trialling organic methods by incorporating certain types of covers into the soil so they form acids and kill fungi. Some say it works wonders, others say nothing happens.

White rot is usually patchy (the lighter the soil the more rot). A farmer will know which fields have an issue and extend the crop rotation on there. Have not heard of growers pulling out because of it. We did notice a shift of onion set production because of it. It's increasingly difficult to find fresh ground. Hence why most company's have gone off to France now. Enough virgin land under Paris to find for onion sets.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

Certainly around everywhere. Can tackle it with cover corps (slightly) and chemical treatment of the soil. However the latter is getting more and more difficult with new regulation. Now trialling organic methods by incorporating certain types of covers into the soil so they form acids and kill fungi. Some say it works wonders, others say nothing happens.

White rot is usually patchy (the lighter the soil the more rot). A farmer will know which fields have an issue and extend the crop rotation on there. Have not heard of growers pulling out because of it. We did notice a shift of onion set production because of it. It's increasingly difficult to find fresh ground. Hence why most company's have gone off to France now. Enough virgin land under Paris to find for onion sets.

It would be interesting to know what CC they are using for this? We use CC such as mustard and oilseed radish for PCN and BCN but it seems to have no effect on white rot.

 

[Niels]

It would be interesting to know what CC they are using for this? We use CC such as mustard and oilseed radish for PCN and BCN but it seems to have no effect on white rot.

Sorry your right Sonoftheheir! The biofumigation is only against PCN and the like but not against white rot. Special varieties of oilseed radish seems to be what is mainly used.

 

[ridger]

Everyone finished harvesting potatoes now? Think il cut back again next year, potatoes can usually be bought at harvest time worth the money if people have no room for them

 

[grumpy]

Everyone finished harvesting potatoes now? Think il cut back again next year, potatoes can usually be bought at harvest time worth the money if people have no room for them

would you no be better to buy tatties in bulk bag them up and sell on instead of growing your own?

 

[JCA]

Everyone finished harvesting potatoes now? Think il cut back again next year, potatoes can usually be bought at harvest time worth the money if people have no room for them

Will be interesting to see what happens, I know of one top 'expert' who has next year written off already. Big growers will keep going, or as we have read here, expand. Most are so heavily committed they could not stop if they wanted to. Small growers work on a very low cost base with old kit and their own labour, so will keep going. A few dropping out will make no difference.

Are people like @Spud who have expanded rapidly in last ten years to blame for all this oversupply? Or are they just good business men looking after their own and it is purely the downturn in consumption that has destroyed the freebuy market?

 

[Spud]

@JCA you make a good point.

Our situation is this. 12yrs ago we were growing 80ac, about a third here, the rest rented. Contractor ridging, destoning and lifting, us doing everything else. Then we began working more closely with contractor, grew a few together, and shared the job. We did some tilling, planted, sprayed, and provided the grading kit, and some trailers. Then crunch time.
We got opportunity this end (contractor 25 miles away, some of his that I was spraying every week were 40 miles away) at the same time he ceased growing. Suddenly the numbers didnt stack up. We'd hired a destoner from the contractor, pulled it ourselves, and he pulled his other one. He still ridged. Relation ship fine with sons of contractor, bloody hard work with ord man. Didnt work. 130ac lifting @ £120/ac back then = £15600, with no spraying, planting or grading to offset it became bloody expensive, and we bought our own harvester. (c/w wheel drive, something he wouldnt entertain)for less than a half a seasons bill. Ridgers and destoner bought for a grand for the pair. Neighbour came with tractor to help.
Then the beet factory shut. Gave opportunity of clean land close by. Good opportunity to grow. Then rented some storage, and farmer offered me some land for following year. etc etc, fairly steady growth.
We're now involved with about 300ac spuds (some share farmed) and its sufficient to justify a decent set of kit, and maintain the standard. (Just!) Any more on our field sizes would be a struggle. (2012 for instance saw 285ac in 21 fields!) Most within 10mile radius, very few carted more than 5miles by tractor, though this year saw an exception. Contractor now long since disbanded, one of sons drives my planter and harvester self employed (lynch pin of operation, very good at his job) and two other self employed men come for the season, usually with tractors. I was driving harvester, drilling and spraying, but as acres grew I became overloaded, and just spray, relieve where required, and fill the gaps/organise.

To me, we now need to polish our act, and get better at what we do. Theres an economical area to grow, and to me, with say 200ac, I still need the standard of kit (and number of people) we have now, but couldnt afford it. Less than 50ac without the need for extra staff is very profitable (and sustainable) with older gear, and maybe in 20yrs thats where we'll be, but for now I'm young enough and daft enough to want to grow the business. Its risk v reward ratio is getting out of kilter recently though, turnover keeps increasing, and profit isnt keeping up!

In terms of oversupply, once several lifting gangs are needed, with armys of foreign labour grading, grown on the free market on borrowed money with lots of hired kit, thats when it gets a bit unsustainable to me. It might be big business sense, but to me its a big gamble, enough for one decent set of kit, and few enough that we can have a few weeks working away from spuds in a year is good here.

Theres my honest veiw.

Spud

 

[grumpy]

JCA you make a good point.

Our situation is this. 12yrs ago we were growing 80ac, about a third here, the rest rented. Contractor ridging, destoning and lifting, us doing everything else. Then we began working more closely with contractor, grew a few together, and shared the job. We did some tilling, planted, sprayed, and provided the grading kit, and some trailers. Then crunch time.
We got opportunity this end (contractor 25 miles away, some of his that I was spraying every week were 40 miles away) at the same time he ceased growing. Suddenly the numbers didnt stack up. We'd hired a destoner from the contractor, pulled it ourselves, and he pulled his other one. He still ridged. Relation ship fine with sons of contractor, bloody hard work with ord man. Didnt work. 130ac lifting @ £120/ac back then = £15600, with no spraying, planting or grading to offset it became bloody expensive, and we bought our own harvester. (c/w wheel drive, something he wouldnt entertain)
Then the beet factory shut. Gave opportunity of clean land close by. Good opportunity to grow. Then rented some storage, and farmer offered me some land for following year. etc etc, fairly steady growth.
We're now involved with about 300ac spuds (some share farmed) and its sufficient to justify a decent set of kit, and maintain the standard. (Just!) Any more on our field sizes would be a struggle. (2012 for instance saw 285ac in 21 fields!) Most within 10mile radius, very few carted more than 5miles by tractor, though this year saw an exception.

To me, we now need to polish our act, and get better at what we do. Theres an economical area to grow, and to me, with say 200ac, I still need the standard of kit we have now, but couldnt afford it. Less than 50ac without the need for extra staff is very profitable (and sustainable) with older gear, and maybe in 20yrs thats where we'll be, but for now I'm young enough and daft enough to want to grow the business. Its risk v reward ratio is getting out of kilter recently though, turnover keeps increasing, and profit isnt keeping up!

In terms of oversupply, once several lifting gangs are needed, with armys of foreign labour grading, grown on the free market on borrowed money with lots of hired kit, thats when it gets a bit unsustainable to me. It might be big business sense, but to me its a big gamble, enough for one decent set of kit, and few enough that we can have a few weeks away from spuds in a year is good here.

Theres my honest veiw.

Spud

nothing has changed tatties were always boom and bust.it was always thus and i remember the 70s.

 

[Farmer Dod]

Except there's not much enjoyment in the tattie job now- at least you had the Abertay calendar to look forward to back in the day.

 

[grumpy]

Except there's not much enjoyment in the tattie job now- at least you had the Abertay calendar to look forward to back in the day.

some one find that as ive tried google a few times and cant

 

[KennyO]

Except there's not much enjoyment in the tattie job now- at least you had the Abertay calendar to look forward to back in the day.

Export job not going well Dod? The little hitlers making you dismantle too many pallets??

I have been loading out bulk piper tops @ £40 not started seed yet just running the tops off.

 

[JCA]

Export job not going well Dod? The little hitlers making you dismantle too many pallets??

I have been loading out bulk piper tops @ £40 not started seed yet just running the tops off.

Is that value pack or processing?

 

[Farmer Dod]

Export job not going well Dod? The little hitlers making you dismantle too many pallets??

I have been loading out bulk piper tops @ £40 not started seed yet just running the tops off.

More a general observation about the tattie sector in general. Export job was okay for us this year. We're splitting just now as well. Seed job should be fine so tattie job should okay for us this year. Just would have preferred it if the ware could have been the cherry on top rather than probable brock. Shame as mostly bonny stuff.

 

[KennyO]

Is that value pack or processing?

Processing- not been paid yet though. Only two loads away. At least another 10 in shed.

 

[KennyO]

More a general observation about the tattie sector in general. Export job was okay for us this year. We're splitting just now as well. Seed job should be fine so tattie job should okay for us this year. Just would have preferred it if the ware could have been the cherry on top rather than probable brock. Shame as mostly bonny stuff.

I know the feeling. We're all seed but still can't get them upto £2500/ac that we need without the ware sales or everything being perfect.

Getting fed up with always needing to be here 12 months a year between grain sowing and harvest. Tattie planting, rogueing, harvest and then dressing most of winter. Don't do everything myself (not quite) but I'm the one who has to sort all problems or everything just stops.

Storing tatties in a 40yr old shed. Majority of boxes are 20-30yrs old. Dresser 25 yrs old. Harvester 20 yrs old. Most of planting gear 10-15 years old. Just wish there was a wee bit surplus to re-invest.

 

[JCA]

I know the feeling. We're all seed but still can't get them upto £2500/ac that we need without the ware sales or everything being perfect.

Getting fed up with always needing to be here 12 months a year between grain sowing and harvest. Tattie planting, rogueing, harvest and then dressing most of winter. Don't do everything myself (not quite) but I'm the one who has to sort all problems or everything just stops.

Storing tatties in a 40yr old shed. Majority of boxes are 20-30yrs old. Dresser 25 yrs old. Harvester 20 yrs old. Most of planting gear 10-15 years old. Just wish there was a wee bit surplus to re-invest.

See @spuds post above then treble your area. Might as well be miserable and work with shiny kit than miserable with a shed full of scrap!

 

[KennyO]

See @spuds post above then treble your area. Might as well be miserable and work with shiny kit than miserable with a shed full of scrap!

Not much chance of a wee grower getting more land in our area JCA. Any available land always goes to the big boys (well not to us anyway but that's maybe cause I run old gear)

Not about to spend lots on kit and more importantly stores.

Guessing your comment was a wee bit tongue in cheek though!