Propane or diesel grain dryer

[DrWazzock]

Who's died?

Nobody died instantly breathing in diesel fumes yet diesel cars could soon be banned from city centres. Modern Diesel engines have lots of emissions reducing technology, filters, and a statutory emissions test every year. Yet still it isn't good enough.

The exhaust of our diesel fired drier goes straight into the feed that makes our bread loaves. It isn't subject to statutory monitoring. It has no particulate filtering. Where do particulates and unburnt hydrocarbons from the burner end up? It doesn't take much working out. What happens when those particulates and unburnt aromatic hydrocarbons get into the food chain? We just don't know, but I don't have a good feeling about it.

Would you roast your dinner directly in the exhaust fumes of your tractor?

 

[DrWazzock]

http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2012/em/c2em30374d#!divAbstract

It's something we need to be extremely careful about. I am particularly concerned about additives such as biocides, anti waxing agents etc. Often not clear what they end up as when burnt and are they added by the supplier of the fuel?

 

[septimus]

Funnily enough it is natural gas that causes most of the problems drying barley for the malting industry where as a smokey peat fire is fine

 

[pellow]

been on diesel but tried kero this year, was quicker drying and less fuel use, around 15-20% less fuel and obviously cheaper fuel, I could not believe the difference. On a Master dryer, so the nozzles are for both Diesel and kero

 

[SilliamWhale]

been on diesel but tried kero this year, was quicker drying and less fuel use, around 15-20% less fuel and obviously cheaper fuel, I could not believe the difference. On a Master dryer, so the nozzles are for both Diesel and kero

If you want to put kero in the diesel do you need to drain the diesel first on can it mix?

 

[David.]

But surely Kero has a lower calorific value and that is why it is cheaper than gas oil?
Not disputing your findings but unsure why that would be.
One advantage of gas oil is that it doesn't require extra secure storage.

 

[Andrew K]

been on diesel but tried kero this year, was quicker drying and less fuel use, around 15-20% less fuel and obviously cheaper fuel, I could not believe the difference. On a Master dryer, so the nozzles are for both Diesel and kero

Thinking about going this way with our Master as well, just wondered if kero is cleaner than diesel in terms of sulphur and other potential contaminants?
Have heard of grain being rejected due to poorly set up driers.

 

[Midnight plough boy]

Had a new dryer installed in the spring. Was told that Kero had a lower calorific value and that diesel was more cost effective to use by the manufacturer and the guys that installed and commissioned it.

I've also heard of grain rejected for smell when dried with Kero - possibly a badly set up dryer though.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Thinking about going this way with our Master as well, just wondered if kero is cleaner than diesel in terms of sulphur and other potential contaminants?
Have heard of grain being rejected due to poorly set up driers.

What does this mean? Poor nozzles ie smokey burn?

 

[pellow]

If you want to put kero in the diesel do you need to drain the diesel first on can it mix?

I drained the remaining diesel out just to be safe

 

[Steevo]

What does this mean? Poor nozzles ie smokey burn?

Wrong ful/air mix.

 

[pellow]

But surely Kero has a lower calorific value and that is why it is cheaper than gas oil?
Not disputing your findings but unsure why that would be.
One advantage of gas oil is that it doesn't require extra secure storage.

I think its burning hotter so thats why it is drying quicker

 

[Andrew K]

What does this mean? Poor nozzles ie smokey burn?

Yes Will, something to avoid if possible.We always get our burner serviced regularly for that reason. You get the cost back from better fuel economy and reliability usually IMO.

 

[Drillman]

If you want to put kero in the diesel do you need to drain the diesel first on can it mix?

I drained the remaining diesel out just to be safe

In our master drier i have filled it with kero and diesel depending what i have on hand. Never drained it and never had any problems.

 

[pellow]

In our master drier i have filled it with kero and diesel depending what i have on hand. Never drained it and never had any problems.

yeah I didn't expect there would be, I also wanted to see how the kero performed without having to wonder if the remaining diesel had made a difference. What is your opinion on fuel use? diesel against kero?

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

The exhaust of our diesel fired drier goes straight into the feed that makes our bread loaves. It isn't subject to statutory monitoring. It has no particulate filtering. Where do particulates and unburnt hydrocarbons from the burner end up? It doesn't take much working out. What happens when those particulates and unburnt aromatic hydrocarbons get into the food chain? We just don't know, but I don't have a good feeling about it.

Would you roast your dinner directly in the exhaust fumes of your tractor?

^^ This is coming.

One of our drier manufacturers told us that their driers installed in Scandinavia have to heat grain indirectly through a heat exchanger system, so exhaust fumes are not in contact with the grain.

All UK maltsters will physically smell intake samples, so can and will reject for odour/taint.

It is an assurance requirement (and probably insurance too) that burners are serviced at least annually.

We have three CF driers all on kerosene, we changed from diesel as kero is cleaner and cheaper. Nearly changed to gas, but very glad we didn't as the oil price collapsed from $120 to $30.

 

[Drillman]

yeah I didn't expect there would be, I also wanted to see how the kero performed without having to wonder if the remaining diesel had made a difference. What is your opinion on fuel use? diesel against kero?

Can dry as many loads on a tank of f kero as i can on a tank of diesel. As kero is cheaper it's a no brainier.

 

[Brisel]

^^ This is coming.

One of our drier manufacturers told us that their driers installed in Scandinavia have to heat grain indirectly through a heat exchanger system, so exhaust fumes are not in contact with the grain.

All UK maltsters will physically smell intake samples, so can and will reject for odour/taint.

It is an assurance requirement (and probably insurance too) that burners are serviced at least annually.

We have three CF driers all on kerosene, we changed from diesel as kero is cleaner and cheaper. Nearly changed to gas, but very glad we didn't as the oil price collapsed from $120 to $30.

Where is the break even price point between 28 second kero and 35 second gas oil in your opinion? In 2007/8 there was a bigger price spread between the two thanks to a European peak demand for diesel. Lots of Lincs farms were converting their driers to kero. Can you still get Class 2 gas oil (diesel for static burners only, not tractors etc)?

Could you get enough natural gas to run your driers at peak demand & are the economics closer between kero & mains gas now? There is a big GTG AD plant up the road from you so you'd be getting gas from the grid produced by land that might have otherwise been producing grain for your stores...

 

[Woldgrain Storage]

For us, the look at moving to gas was assessed in terms of installation costs rather than unit price, as gas was cheaper than kerosene/diesel.

We would have gone onto mains piped gas, with infrastructure costs shared with our neighbours. The pipeline would have been paid for shortly before the 20 year depreciation of the driers were completed.

Mains gas would have enabled us to tie into long term pricing and would have freed up space on site.

However, that was calculated with oil at $120 a barrel (and the neighbours have consequently 'gone-under' several times since then...)

Our 'peak demand' involves some big numbers. In a wet August, if our three driers are drying soggy feed wheat, they will get through a thousand litres of kerosene between them in an hour.

This might be melting a few polar bears, but our three big driers are probably more environmentally friendly than a dozen smaller farm driers.

 

[bankrupt]

getting gas from the grid produced by land that might have otherwise been producing grain for your stores...

In neo-environmentalistspeak, Brisel, this is surely the long-sought macro-ecologic equivalent of the thoroughly discredited macro-economic stabilizer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_stabilizer