Public Image Limited.

[Kidds]

I liked Mr Rotten back then and still do now. He has changed, as we all have over those years but I find what he has to say a very interesting point of view.

 

[multi power]

Treat them as they treat you .

That's why I'm ALWAYS nice to the cows and would only ever shout at people

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Most people are basically reasonable - statistically, the percentage who are not quite adjusted is roughly 15%, nowhere near a "a lot".

How do you come to the figure of 15%? I’ve certainly never been interviewed to see if I’m ignorant or arrogant?

 

[bobk]

Most people are basically reasonable - statistically, the percentage who are not quite adjusted is roughly 15%, nowhere near "a lot".

I would imagine your neighbours are farmers or country folk, mine are a bunch of c pansies .

 

[Walterp]

How do you come to the figure of 15%? I’ve certainly never been interviewed to see if I’m ignorant or arrogant?

Fair question.

Two answers, really:

1. I dealt with thousands of people during my professional life, both as clients, opponents and connected parties, and the number of difficult people one would encounter tended to be fairly constant over the years.

Some would just be a personal 'chemistry' reaction, but some were clearly not well adjusted to anyone other than themselves. (Just as an aside, here, always noticed that Jewish people were invariably extremely urbane and pleasant with no exceptions at all - due to upbringing? religion? background?)

2. On a more scientific basis, the number of psychopaths and sociopaths in UK society is estimated at roughly 15% - people who do not conform to norms that the rest of us (generally) observe.

The rest is just down to how you inter-react to people.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Fair question.

Two answers, really:

1. I dealt with thousands of people during my professional life, both as clients, opponents and connected parties, and the number of difficult people one would encounter tended to be fairly constant over the years.

Some would just be a personal 'chemistry' reaction, but some were clearly not well adjusted to anyone other than themselves. (Just as an aside, here, always noticed that Jewish people were invariably extremely urbane and pleasant with no exceptions at all - due to upbringing? religion? background?)

2. On a more scientific basis, the number of psychopaths and sociopaths in UK society is estimated at roughly 15% - people who do not conform to norms that the rest of us (generally) observe.

The rest is just down to how you inter-react to people.

Who’s calling them psychopaths?i said ignorant...there’s a hell of a difference between bad manners and an axe murderer

 

[Walterp]

Who’s calling them psychopaths?i said ignorant...there’s a hell of a difference between bad manners and an axe murderer

You need to look a bit deeper.

Psychopathic tendencies are not uncommon, there's been a fair bit of comment in the Press over the last few years about this (largely inherited) trait.

A checklist follows (in case you want to identify anyone).

 

[DrWazzock]

Quality sells.

The man who made my fence panels is a miserable old bar steward who doesn't give a stuff what his customers think.

Yet he has a waiting list for his fence panels because they are top quality at a reasonable price.

That's what I value. Quality and integrity.

You can have as slick a PR machine as you like, but it will count for nothing if the product or service is rubbish.

I have often found it the case that the service or product is better from a grumpy or rough looking supplier. Often they are putting their heart and soul into their product and aren't messing about with the "image" they portray.

 

[Walterp]

CHECKLIST

1. Aggressive narcissism

2. Glibness/superficial charm

3. Grandiose sense of self-worth

4. Pathological lying

5. Cunning/manipulative

6. Lack of remorse or guilt

7. Emotionally shallow

8. Callous/lack of empathy

9. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

True psychopaths only care about their own feelings. They can feel very, very sorry for their own self when they get caught, and not feel remorse for the wrong they've done or the damage they've inflicted on others.

Psychopaths actually feel entitled to do what they want, they don't care about rules and laws; psychopaths feel that they're superior beings and that rules and laws and ethics are only for the lesser creatures - they think of us as sheep, or peasants.

Instead of compassion, a psychopath is more likely to actually relish the pain and fear of others and think another's distress is amusing or sexually stimulating - 'sadism'. (There is at least one study showing that the pupils of psychopaths dilate with arousal when shown images of other people in pain, being beaten up, raped, tortured, etc.)

That lack of concern for the needs and feelings of others is referred to as having a "lack of empathy"; its one of the diagnostic traits of psychopathy.

If confronted by witnesses providing hard evidence of the reprehensible acts they've committed and the harm they've done, a psychopath's most likely response is, "...So what? Big deal. Get over it," or "I was just following orders."

 

[DrWazzock]

Images are just that. Images.

It's what happens where the rubber meets the road that really matters.

And is it desirable that we contort our true selves to meet the stereotypical image expected by "the public"?

If we have to mould our image to meet the publics preconceived notion of what a good farmer is, then we are most likely being dishonest. We are feeding a false image of what a farmer is.

I will never say that badgers should be protected because they are nice and cuddly even though this is the image that 80% of customers might like to perceive.

I will never say it, because it is IMO wrong to protect badgers when they are harbouring disease and there are too many of them.

It's a deception and it leads to a wrong drift in the general thinking of society to be "nice to people" just for the sake of it.

 

[Henarar]

the customer is not always right
they just think they are

 

[DrWazzock]

CHECKLIST

1. Aggressive narcissism

2. Glibness/superficial charm

3. Grandiose sense of self-worth

4. Pathological lying

5. Cunning/manipulative

6. Lack of remorse or guilt

7. Emotionally shallow

8. Callous/lack of empathy

9. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

True psychopaths only care about their own feelings. They can feel very, very sorry for their own self when they get caught, and not feel remorse for the wrong they've done or the damage they've inflicted on others.

Psychopaths actually feel entitled to do what they want, they don't care about rules and laws; psychopaths feel that they're superior beings and that rules and laws and ethics are only for the lesser creatures - they think of us as sheep, or peasants.

Instead of compassion, a psychopath is more likely to actually relish the pain and fear of others and think another's distress is amusing or sexually stimulating - 'sadism'. (There is at least one study showing that the pupils of psychopaths dilate with arousal when shown images of other people in pain, being beaten up, raped, tortured, etc.)

That lack of concern for the needs and feelings of others is referred to as having a "lack of empathy"; its one of the diagnostic traits of psychopathy.

If confronted by witnesses providing hard evidence of the reprehensible acts they've committed and the harm they've done, a psychopath's most likely response is, "...So what? Big deal. Get over it," or "I was just following orders."

Generally brought about by lack of formation of bond with a parent before reaching 5 years old. Hence "getting mothers back to work" isn't a good thing but such a view would never suit would it?

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

CHECKLIST

1. Aggressive narcissism

2. Glibness/superficial charm

3. Grandiose sense of self-worth

4. Pathological lying

5. Cunning/manipulative

6. Lack of remorse or guilt

7. Emotionally shallow

8. Callous/lack of empathy

9. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

True psychopaths only care about their own feelings. They can feel very, very sorry for their own self when they get caught, and not feel remorse for the wrong they've done or the damage they've inflicted on others.

Psychopaths actually feel entitled to do what they want, they don't care about rules and laws; psychopaths feel that they're superior beings and that rules and laws and ethics are only for the lesser creatures - they think of us as sheep, or peasants.

Instead of compassion, a psychopath is more likely to actually relish the pain and fear of others and think another's distress is amusing or sexually stimulating - 'sadism'. (There is at least one study showing that the pupils of psychopaths dilate with arousal when shown images of other people in pain, being beaten up, raped, tortured, etc.)

That lack of concern for the needs and feelings of others is referred to as having a "lack of empathy"; its one of the diagnostic traits of psychopathy.

If confronted by witnesses providing hard evidence of the reprehensible acts they've committed and the harm they've done, a psychopath's most likely response is, "...So what? Big deal. Get over it," or "I was just following orders."

@Walterp some of that checklist would appear, from previous postings by you, to describe your father and brother

A fair assumpton ?

 

[DrWazzock]

CHECKLIST

1. Aggressive narcissism

2. Glibness/superficial charm

3. Grandiose sense of self-worth

4. Pathological lying

5. Cunning/manipulative

6. Lack of remorse or guilt

7. Emotionally shallow

8. Callous/lack of empathy

9. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

True psychopaths only care about their own feelings. They can feel very, very sorry for their own self when they get caught, and not feel remorse for the wrong they've done or the damage they've inflicted on others.

Psychopaths actually feel entitled to do what they want, they don't care about rules and laws; psychopaths feel that they're superior beings and that rules and laws and ethics are only for the lesser creatures - they think of us as sheep, or peasants.

Instead of compassion, a psychopath is more likely to actually relish the pain and fear of others and think another's distress is amusing or sexually stimulating - 'sadism'. (There is at least one study showing that the pupils of psychopaths dilate with arousal when shown images of other people in pain, being beaten up, raped, tortured, etc.)

That lack of concern for the needs and feelings of others is referred to as having a "lack of empathy"; its one of the diagnostic traits of psychopathy.

If confronted by witnesses providing hard evidence of the reprehensible acts they've committed and the harm they've done, a psychopath's most likely response is, "...So what? Big deal. Get over it," or "I was just following orders."

Sounds like every manager I have ever had, and a good few of today's world leaders!

 

[Woolly]

Worth remembering that policy / legislation that affects what happens in the countryside is made in the cities, often by people with little experience of farming, agriculture, or rural affaires.

Politicians follow public opinion, and there aren't many votes in the countryside. So public perception affects our future.

Those who welcome the public to their farms, holiday lets, open farm Sundays etc can do much to get the rural message across. We need all the friends we can get.

Farmers, like anyone else in business, should be able to pass the:

'Bar Stool Test'.....

Go into a pub, sit at the bar on a stool next to a complete stranger, and when the opportunity arises tell them in 20secs why British farming is a good thing.

 

[marcot]

CHECKLIST

1. Aggressive narcissism

2. Glibness/superficial charm

3. Grandiose sense of self-worth

4. Pathological lying

5. Cunning/manipulative

6. Lack of remorse or guilt

7. Emotionally shallow

8. Callous/lack of empathy

9. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

True psychopaths only care about their own feelings. They can feel very, very sorry for their own self when they get caught, and not feel remorse for the wrong they've done or the damage they've inflicted on others.

Psychopaths actually feel entitled to do what they want, they don't care about rules and laws; psychopaths feel that they're superior beings and that rules and laws and ethics are only for the lesser creatures - they think of us as sheep, or peasants.

Instead of compassion, a psychopath is more likely to actually relish the pain and fear of others and think another's distress is amusing or sexually stimulating - 'sadism'. (There is at least one study showing that the pupils of psychopaths dilate with arousal when shown images of other people in pain, being beaten up, raped, tortured, etc.)

That lack of concern for the needs and feelings of others is referred to as having a "lack of empathy"; its one of the diagnostic traits of psychopathy.

If confronted by witnesses providing hard evidence of the reprehensible acts they've committed and the harm they've done, a psychopath's most likely response is, "...So what? Big deal. Get over it," or "I was just following orders."

Uh oh!!!!
Gulp [emoji33]

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

Sorry I'm a little late back on this topic , I've only just removed my head from my rear end .

 

[Walterp]

@Walterp some of that checklist would appear, from previous postings by you, to describe your father and brother

A fair assumpton ?

I wish I'd been as quick on the uptake as you - it took me a very long time to work out why this particular farming family were not like others that I know.

But it could be much worse - I recall in particular one man I met, back in the day, who was so forcefully intent on what he wanted, regardless of anyone else's concerns, that it was disconcerting.

Much later, DNA evidence from the exhumed remains of a local double murder of two young girls established that his sibling had committed those murders. Having met the man, it was easy to see how.

 

[Old Boar]

What is the public perception of a farmer though? Do we really know?
Type "farmer" into Google and select images, and you get endless pages of men in dungarees holding a spud, all smiling happily. Change this to cartoon and you get pages of men in dungarees holding pitchforks.
I have asked townies. They either think we are sons of the soil, leaning on a gate with a bit of straw in our mouths, saying "aaarrrr" and being a bit thick, or twits in Range Rovers and pink cords who swan around looking down their noses at everyone. (livestock v arable????)
The ignorance of what we actually do is staggering. I was told I was sheltered from "real life" by a group of townies once, and I told them I was involved with life, animals giving birth, and death, animals dying or going to slaughter, on a virtual daily basis. They were gobsmacked.
So do we really know what the general public think of us?

 

[Woolly]

So do we really know what the general public think of us?

Keep asking them.
But I'll wager most townies think farmers are rich, must be cos they've got land!

I often think it's strange that many folk will spend £10k or more on a car, fancy kitchen, a wedding or a holiday, but wouldn't ever consider buying an acre or two, cos owning land is not for the likes of us.