Pylons

[Power Harrow Pilot]

We are on the route of the North Humber to High Marnham pylon project. The project is in the early stages and I have taken on a well respected land agent. Is there anyone on here that has gone through this process in recent years that could pass on any tips to us? Is there anything you would do different? Is there any other money making opportunities that the scheme will bring??

 

[capfits]

Well the staff need somewhere to stay for a long period if you have places to let.
They need to large storage yard somewhere too.
Etc etc

 

[puppet]

We are due pylons which were Covid delayed then an inquiry to bury it which will decide in 2024. Best thing we did was had a meeting with 10 farmers and 3 agents to compare what we had been offered which varied by 30%. I am taking money up front as a deed of servitude as it would take 50 years for the wayleave to pay more.
With such a massive project the advantages of a wayleave disappear as I would not have much say on access and the route.
Apart from that your agent will advise on other compensation. Keep a diary of EVERY conversation and extra task and get it in writing as big companies will deny any agreement took place verbally.
Ask for decent fencing and gates as we got to keep it all by removing it ourselves.

 

[fermerboy]

Good agent is a must, they should know all the tricks, money for the servitude, crop compenstation, damages, etc etc. Think carefully about what you want/or are going to allow, good possiblity to get gateways moved, trackways installed, new accesses created, often its not about money.
Spec the fencing carefully including size of posts, strainers, wire size and brand, gateway width and spec of gates, they will use absolute shite if you dont, include a clasue that the fencing has to be left, along with any surplus hardcore/lifted trackways, possibly speccing where it has to be left.
If you end up with unuseable areas cut off during the works get them set for compensation, always a 5ton+ drop of milling wheat as well you have lost!

With the wayleaves be aware its highly possible that the top wire in the pylon line is a fibre optic and they may be renting that out comercially to BT etc so thats a seperate wayleave, that one is about the same as the pylon wayleave, agent should be on that though.

Get a written code of conduct included with the deed of servitude, with agreed details on working hours, accesses, drainage, anything else you want in there, get agreed access to allow you to check over any drainage repairs etc, if you can get neighbour's agents to agree this as well even better, its better if everybody is on the same page. Our CoC has been used all along the current project we have going on, think its over about 20 landowners now.
Keep a diary of meetings and calls, including who with, what about and how long, I work on 10min increments, a little extra chat about the weather can make a call over 10mins so its a 20min call
Charge them regularly for your time, I do it through my agent at £50/hr, totally itemised(include the time for doing that) and that includes dealing with emails, don't feel guilty about it because everybody else will be charging plenty, including your agent at the thick end of £200/hr plus expenses, I'd some months over £1000/month in time to them at the start of this current one and nobody batted an eyelid.

Get a hard hard and a hi viz jacket, and safety glasses, I got chucked out of my own field one day for not being attired correctly , pull them on and nobody will look twice at you, even without a safety induction, you will need them even if being escorted to inspect a drain or the like. Plus it makes an odds if you are dragged into a meeting etc and you don't look like a grubby yokel.

Rent them a yard if possible, It will amaze you how much an acre of temporary compound is worth!! I really really like construction compounds, far better than farming!! (PM if you want a figure!)
Sometimes there can be opportunities with some of the contractors to provide storage, offsite parking, offsite working areas mechanics and fitters don't like sitting through a 6hr induction to get on a site to service a digger etc so its often the case they can get the machine to somewhere nearby to work on. Washing facilites for jeeps/plant, supply of water for mobile bowsers for same.
Accomdation if you have property to rent.

Accept the fact that its going to be an upheaveal, and something will go wrong/somebody will go somewhere they shouldn't and deal with it and charge them !!
Generally I find the guy at the dirty end to be no problem, 9 times out of 10 he wont have been instructed properly when hes done something not agreed.
Its the dickheads that are middle management that are usually the problem, some of them just need their thinking "corrected" and matters improve.

Theres tons more stuff but thats a few for now.

 

[nick...]

Got 3 coming through farm on Norwich to tilbury line.had lots of surveys and I’ve been a pain in their arses and now got an order against me so can’t stop access.lots of groups fighting it too.got an agent but not doing a great deal but that may change.only 5 agents working for 2500 farmers over 180 km so must be others on here affected.the mental stress is huge being told what to do on our property.all parties doing the surveys get lots of hassle of locals too and a bat survey team told a neighbor last week they get massive hostility everywhere They go.the land damage will be huge with test holes 150x3x1.5 in size along with test piling.every pylon leg will have 60 cubic metres of concrete under it so lots to be carted in and out.we will never get the land damage put right in my life either.cant see any opportunities either apart from the stress Involved.
nick...

 

[puppet]

We had a gas pipeline
Hassle, access, split fields, drainage but paid a lot more than any farming ever did.

 

[renewablejohn]

Make sure any farmhouse is 200 mtrs away from the line. Less than 100 mtrs and your house is virtually unsaleable unless your prepared for at least 75% devaluation.

 

[nick...]

Make sure any farmhouse is 200 mtrs away from the line. Less than 100 mtrs and your house is virtually unsaleable unless your prepared for at least 75% devaluation.

Agent told me any houses or properties within several???? Hundred metres are worthless and no one wants them.ill be about 400 metres away but a neighbor will be within 150 metres.pyons going to be 60/70 metres tall and will ruin area for ever
nick...

 

[hoff135]

They will do what they like so take every penny you can get. These companies are only interested in money even though their pr department will tell you all this will save the world.

 

[Dave6170]

Got 3 coming through farm on Norwich to tilbury line.had lots of surveys and I’ve been a pain in their arses and now got an order against me so can’t stop access.lots of groups fighting it too.got an agent but not doing a great deal but that may change.only 5 agents working for 2500 farmers over 180 km so must be others on here affected.the mental stress is huge being told what to do on our property.all parties doing the surveys get lots of hassle of locals too and a bat survey team told a neighbor last week they get massive hostility everywhere They go.the land damage will be huge with test holes 150x3x1.5 in size along with test piling.every pylon leg will have 60 cubic metres of concrete under it so lots to be carted in and out.we will never get the land damage put right in my life either.cant see any opportunities either apart from the stress Involved.
nick...

I wondered if that line would still go ahead? Isn’t that offshore windfarm not going ahead now? Or is that something completely different.

I was being awkward with SSE mainly due to their complete lack of communication with us! A sse land agent texted me wanting access for engineers in a few days I told them to feck off! He threatened to serve me notice, I told him I want written 2 weeks notice before anyone steps on our land and that texting a few days before Is not appropriate or sufficient. I want to know who,where, when and how many! Never heard from him again and that was almost a month ago. Just trying it on to see what they could get away with with me.

don’t let them off with anything! Write everything down. they try to be all nicey nicey and your friend but they’re not. They are working for their shareholders, not the good of the planet.

f##k them!

 

[steveR]

We are due pylons which were Covid delayed then an inquiry to bury it which will decide in 2024. Best thing we did was had a meeting with 10 farmers and 3 agents to compare what we had been offered which varied by 30%. I am taking money up front as a deed of servitude as it would take 50 years for the wayleave to pay more.
With such a massive project the advantages of a wayleave disappear as I would not have much say on access and the route.
Apart from that your agent will advise on other compensation. Keep a diary of EVERY conversation and extra task and get it in writing as big companies will deny any agreement took place verbally.
Ask for decent fencing and gates as we got to keep it all by removing it ourselves.

This, and a dedicated camera and keep pics of everything, if using a phone camera, save pics on dedicated folder. Have all pics gps and date stamped.

 

[steveR]

Good agent is a must, they should know all the tricks, money for the servitude, crop compenstation, damages, etc etc. Think carefully about what you want/or are going to allow, good possiblity to get gateways moved, trackways installed, new accesses created, often its not about money.
Spec the fencing carefully including size of posts, strainers, wire size and brand, gateway width and spec of gates, they will use absolute shite if you dont, include a clasue that the fencing has to be left, along with any surplus hardcore/lifted trackways, possibly speccing where it has to be left.
If you end up with unuseable areas cut off during the works get them set for compensation, always a 5ton+ drop of milling wheat as well you have lost!

With the wayleaves be aware its highly possible that the top wire in the pylon line is a fibre optic and they may be renting that out comercially to BT etc so thats a seperate wayleave, that one is about the same as the pylon wayleave, agent should be on that though.

Get a written code of conduct included with the deed of servitude, with agreed details on working hours, accesses, drainage, anything else you want in there, get agreed access to allow you to check over any drainage repairs etc, if you can get neighbour's agents to agree this as well even better, its better if everybody is on the same page. Our CoC has been used all along the current project we have going on, think its over about 20 landowners now.
Keep a diary of meetings and calls, including who with, what about and how long, I work on 10min increments, a little extra chat about the weather can make a call over 10mins so its a 20min call
Charge them regularly for your time, I do it through my agent at £50/hr, totally itemised(include the time for doing that) and that includes dealing with emails, don't feel guilty about it because everybody else will be charging plenty, including your agent at the thick end of £200/hr plus expenses, I'd some months over £1000/month in time to them at the start of this current one and nobody batted an eyelid.

Get a hard hard and a hi viz jacket, and safety glasses, I got chucked out of my own field one day for not being attired correctly , pull them on and nobody will look twice at you, even without a safety induction, you will need them even if being escorted to inspect a drain or the like. Plus it makes an odds if you are dragged into a meeting etc and you don't look like a grubby yokel.

Rent them a yard if possible, It will amaze you how much an acre of temporary compound is worth!! I really really like construction compounds, far better than farming!! (PM if you want a figure!)
Sometimes there can be opportunities with some of the contractors to provide storage, offsite parking, offsite working areas mechanics and fitters don't like sitting through a 6hr induction to get on a site to service a digger etc so its often the case they can get the machine to somewhere nearby to work on. Washing facilites for jeeps/plant, supply of water for mobile bowsers for same.
Accomdation if you have property to rent.

Accept the fact that its going to be an upheaveal, and something will go wrong/somebody will go somewhere they shouldn't and deal with it and charge them !!
Generally I find the guy at the dirty end to be no problem, 9 times out of 10 he wont have been instructed properly when hes done something not agreed.
Its the dickheads that are middle management that are usually the problem, some of them just need their thinking "corrected" and matters improve.

Theres tons more stuff but thats a few for now.

Excellent summation of dealing with pretty well all major construction projects.

 

[hoff135]

Get a hard hard and a hi viz jacket, and safety glasses, I got chucked out of my own field one day for not being attired correctly , pull them on and nobody will look twice at you, even without a safety induction, you will need them even if being escorted to inspect a drain or the like. Plus it makes an odds if you are dragged into a meeting etc and you don't look like a grubby yokel.

Network rail went into our field with 360 machines to sort a bridge without asking. Father spotted them went onto the line and stood looking at them. Man in charge had a fit, told him to get off the track at once, father told him he'd get off the track when he got out of his field. That changed his tune!

 

[nick...]

I wondered if that line would still go ahead? Isn’t that offshore windfarm not going ahead now? Or is that something completely different.

I was being awkward with SSE mainly due to their complete lack of communication with us! A sse land agent texted me wanting access for engineers in a few days I told them to feck off! He threatened to serve me notice, I told him I want written 2 weeks notice before anyone steps on our land and that texting a few days before Is not appropriate or sufficient. I want to know who,where, when and how many! Never heard from him again and that was almost a month ago. Just trying it on to see what they could get away with with me.

don’t let them off with anything! Write everything down. they try to be all nicey nicey and your friend but they’re not. They are working for their shareholders, not the good of the planet.

f##k them!

I’m being very awkward hence having had a s172 I think it was served on me.i can see civil unrest coming when they start.been expecting 360 diggers on low loaders for ages so my farm driveway is now only accessible by cars or small vehicles due to huge lumps of Carr stone being strategically placed at the entrance.we are all hopefull of cable in sea and lots of politicians are on our side but at end of day Home Secretary will have final say.its said the coastal route,cable in sea will be £2 billion cheaper than pylons.
mr angry,bunwell
nick...

 

[adda]

@Radnor Lad

 

[fermerboy]

Excellent summation of dealing with pretty well all major construction projects.

5 yrs ago I didn't have a clue!!
Been a helll of a steep learning curve this last while.

Try as you might there is still stuff that will be overlooked in the paperwork, and likewise somebody will do or try something that isn't as agreed, you have to just accept that as a given and deal with the fallout if it happens.
The other thing is just how much money is thrown about, they will waste more than you can imagine, so don't feel any guilt about trying to get a few quid any way you can.

 

[Flatland guy]

Got 3 coming through farm on Norwich to tilbury line.had lots of surveys and I’ve been a pain in their arses and now got an order against me so can’t stop access.lots of groups fighting it too.got an agent but not doing a great deal but that may change.only 5 agents working for 2500 farmers over 180 km so must be others on here affected.the mental stress is huge being told what to do on our property.all parties doing the surveys get lots of hassle of locals too and a bat survey team told a neighbor last week they get massive hostility everywhere They go.the land damage will be huge with test holes 150x3x1.5 in size along with test piling.every pylon leg will have 60 cubic metres of concrete under it so lots to be carted in and out.we will never get the land damage put right in my life either.cant see any opportunities either apart from the stress Involved.
nick..

Has the project actually got planning permission?
Everyone says get a good agent, unfortunately no agent likes to be on the bad side of the Government projects else they get a reputation for other projects for their firm/themselves etc. Some agents are in effect helping the project by gently coercing you to agree.
The surveys really are a waste of time/money it is a box ticking exercise I bet before you knew anything about these pylons people would have been working on them for about five years, doing feasability, costings, route planning etc.
At the end of the day the project will go ahead come what may but pick your battles carefully, battles are there to be won however you will loose the war, If they have to they will go to compulsory purchase. Another thing I learnt when I had an infrastructure project was that the Monarch still has the divine right to acquire to any property/ land as they think fit they may not have enacted the Law for years but never conceded the law either......so much for a free country supposedly!
The other thing to note is that there are five agents supposedly representing 2500 farmers even your agent may have several farmers on his account but just be careful it does not mention landowners and in effect plenty of farmers may only be tenants and not have much say as a landowner( not that they have a lot more anyway).

I’m being very awkward hence having had a s172 I think it was served on me.i can see civil unrest coming when they start.been expecting 360 diggers on low loaders for ages so my farm driveway is now only accessible by cars or small vehicles due to huge lumps of Carr stone being strategically placed at the entrance.we are all hopefull of cable in sea and lots of politicians are on our side but at end of day Home Secretary will have final say.its said the coastal route,cable in sea will be £2 billion cheaper than pylons.
mr angry,bunwell
nick...

I am sorry but the cable in sea is just a diversionary tactic and a lot of local politicians are just blowing smoke to look good to appease their voting public. We have similar in Lincs with former RAF Scampton site going to be used for aslyum seekers it will happen but local Council and other bodies going to Court to stop it, just delaying really allowing the local public to gradually adjust to the idea.
Having been through what you are going through I completely understand what it is like. The double standards of health and safety you are not allowed to have an induction course for health and safety of people on your property doing surveys etc but elsewhere on your farm/business it is frowned upon by insurers etc for not having a policy and HSE will not make a comment on the matter makes my blood boil.
Other thing to note is it option/ grant of easement procedure or not?

 

[Oliveau]

I wondered if that line would still go ahead? Isn’t that offshore windfarm not going ahead now? Or is that something completely different.

I was being awkward with SSE mainly due to their complete lack of communication with us! A sse land agent texted me wanting access for engineers in a few days I told them to feck off! He threatened to serve me notice, I told him I want written 2 weeks notice before anyone steps on our land and that texting a few days before Is not appropriate or sufficient. I want to know who,where, when and how many! Never heard from him again and that was almost a month ago. Just trying it on to see what they could get away with with me.

don’t let them off with anything! Write everything down. they try to be all nicey nicey and your friend but they’re not. They are working for their shareholders, not the good of the planet.

f##k them!

Not all of the chaps on ‘t’other side’ are bad guys! I always took the view that one day in the future I might need to deal with a farmer again, so I would treat them as I myself would want to be treated. Sometimes however, there would be the odd aggressive character who would get short shrift from me if they didn’t behave!
My intention was that at the end of the project farmers and myself would have established a sound professional relationship, with mutual understanding and respect each side.

I always remember a character christened ‘ Walking stick Willie’, a retired farmer who was obviously not happy at leaving son in charge & having nothing to do. On my gas pipeline job he would come wandering out on the spread, stick in hand, no safety gear, and despite me politely explaining that he couldn’t be there for safety reasons, he wouldn’t budge. One day the drainage contractors were looking for a deep drain to connect into the header, but couldn’t find it. WW had stationed himself some metres off the pipeline, stick in hand, and as he obviously knew every inch of the land I asked him if he could indicate the run of the pipe, to which he replied “They are the experts - let them find it.” Eventually after much digging it was found, and it was exactly where he was standing! So I marched up to him and in exasperation said “You old bugger, you are enjoying this.” I got no reply, but a little tiny smile crossed his face. Mutual respect!

 

[Dave6170]

Not all of the chaps on ‘t’other side’ are bad guys! I always took the view that one day in the future I might need to deal with a farmer again, so I would treat them as I myself would want to be treated. Sometimes however, there would be the odd aggressive character who would get short shrift from me if they didn’t behave!
My intention was that at the end of the project farmers and myself would have established a sound professional relationship, with mutual understanding and respect each side.

I always remember a character christened ‘ Walking stick Willie’, a retired farmer who was obviously not happy at leaving son in charge & having nothing to do. On my gas pipeline job he would come wandering out on the spread, stick in hand, no safety gear, and despite me politely explaining that he couldn’t be there for safety reasons, he wouldn’t budge. One day the drainage contractors were looking for a deep drain to connect into the header, but couldn’t find it. WW had stationed himself some metres off the pipeline, stick in hand, and as he obviously knew every inch of the land I asked him if he could indicate the run of the pipe, to which he replied “They are the experts - let them find it.” Eventually after much digging it was found, and it was exactly where he was standing! So I marched up to him and in exasperation said “You old bugger, you are enjoying this.” I got no reply, but a little tiny smile crossed his face. Mutual respect!

I’m sure some of you are decent guys trying to do your job but the people above you working for the shareholders are not

 

[fermerboy]

I’m sure some of you are decent guys trying to do your job but the people above you working for the shareholders are not

To be fair I have found the "other side" to be not so bad, I do try to "get on" with folk if possible, usually there is more to be gained that way than being awkward, freebies/favors/etc.
Sometimes you have to hold out for yourself big time though.

We are already farming next to Europe's second largest substation and now they are planning to build a new larger one next door on the other side, this one to be 80-100ac for the actual site footprint plus landscaping and roads etc, massive!!!! Every man and his dog is crawling about developing battery storage sites(neighbour already has a big battery project on) off and onshore wind and now solar is being talked about.
Obviously we are going to have cables feeding it so lots of hassle ahead.....
And all this is above the offshore wind job we currently have going on!!

Problem as I see it is ultimately they have the power to take the land they need, yes you can negotiate but they can compulsory purchase if you hold out too far, telecoms, utilities, water acts all have serious powers.
I lost against the water act not long ago, arguably not used correctly for what it was intended for but was I going to risk a big legal bill to find out?