Qurbani lamb

[Muddyroads]

Our local market have asked for lamb that qualifies for Qurbani to be supplied over the next 2 weeks. Need to be uncastrated with full length tails, over 6 months old. As it happens I have 3 good ones which I picked out today. Having done a bit of searching this evening it looks as though the slaughter is likely to be non stun, so I’ve decided not to send them. Has anyone else looked into this?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

How do you think they’ll be killed the week after like...

 

[Muddyroads]

Preferably stunned, but I accept that we have no way of knowing. I’m just not comfortable knowingly sending them for non stun “sacrifice”, if that is indeed what will happen.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Preferably stunned, but I accept that we have no way of knowing. I’m just not comfortable knowingly sending them for non stun “sacrifice”, if that is indeed what will happen.

If you’re worried about them being non stunned send them to an abattoir that stuns

 

[Muddyroads]

I do.

 

[John Chance]

Something like 70% of UK sheep kill is Halal. Some is stun. Some is not. It's only possible to control which you are sending them to if you go deadweight direct either with an abattoir that is all stun or with an abattoir that will give you a commitment that they will go down the stun line.

I can see why people might not agree, but aren't there are a lot more significant challenges to sheep welfare than a skilled quick non stun kill?

 

[Sharpy]

Something like 70% of UK sheep kill is Halal. Some is stun. Some is not. It's only possible to control which you are sending them to if you go deadweight direct either with an abattoir that is all stun or with an abattoir that will give you a commitment that they will go down the stun line.

I can see why people might not agree, but aren't there are a lot more significant challenges to sheep welfare than a skilled quick non stun kill?

Problem is that its not always "skilled quick non stun kill". Thats what bothers people.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Something like 70% of UK sheep kill is Halal. Some is stun. Some is not. It's only possible to control which you are sending them to if you go deadweight direct either with an abattoir that is all stun or with an abattoir that will give you a commitment that they will go down the stun line.

I can see why people might not agree, but aren't there are a lot more significant challenges to sheep welfare than a skilled quick non stun kill?

Chronic and acute lameness throughout the UK sheep flock is what immediately springs to mind.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Our local market have asked for lamb that qualifies for Qurbani to be supplied over the next 2 weeks. Need to be uncastrated with full length tails, over 6 months old. As it happens I have 3 good ones which I picked out today. Having done a bit of searching this evening it looks as though the slaughter is likely to be non stun, so I’ve decided not to send them. Has anyone else looked into this?

You'd be better off selling to the customers, through a private kill arrangement. This is a perfect opportunity to value add.

 

[Muddyroads]

Agreed, and we do that to a degree. We also supply a local abattoir who in turn supplies local butchers. It’s frustrating that we don’t know the percentage of none stun slaughter in this country, though I think it could be a double edged sword. Non farming friends are horrified that it happens, but wider public knowledge of it would probably reduce further the amount of lamb that the British public eat.

 

[Tim W]

Agreed, and we do that to a degree. We also supply a local abattoir who in turn supplies local butchers. It’s frustrating that we don’t know the percentage of none stun slaughter in this country, though I think it could be a double edged sword. Non farming friends are horrified that it happens, but wider public knowledge of it would probably reduce further the amount of lamb that the British public eat.

I'm sure i have seen data somewhere & it's a fairly low %age that is non-stun
Have you visited & compared a non stun and pre stun abattoir?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

I'm sure i have seen data somewhere & it's a fairly low %age that is non-stun
Have you visited & compared a non stun and pre stun abattoir?

I wouldn’t believe that data

 

[Tim W]

I wouldn’t believe that data

Here's the report that i read---https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/778588/slaughter-method-survey-2018.pdf

99% cattle stunned pre slaughter, 97% of calves and 75% of sheep
Which was lower than i recalled for some reason (which proves how dodgy my memory is)

Why not believe it?
Do you have a better data set?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Here's the report that i read---https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/778588/slaughter-method-survey-2018.pdf

99% cattle stunned pre slaughter, 97% of calves and 75% of sheep
Which was lower than i recalled for some reason (which proves how dodgy my memory is)

Why not believe it?
Do you have a better data set?

I’m afraid not.... @Smith31 is the man In the know

 

[Al R]

Here's the report that i read---https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/778588/slaughter-method-survey-2018.pdf

99% cattle stunned pre slaughter, 97% of calves and 75% of sheep
Which was lower than i recalled for some reason (which proves how dodgy my memory is)

Why not believe it?
Do you have a better data set?

Interesting they only did a survey of 225,000 sheep?

If they did a total from every animal in a month or in a set period in the UK then it would be realistic data. Also lambs and ewes would be a big difference? I know there’s 2 big ones that say on their websites that they use non stun.

 

[Tim W]

I’m afraid not.... @Smith31 is the man In the know

Afraid you don't believe it or afraid there isn't a better data set?

I'm interested in peoples experiences in visiting /comparing non stun and pre stun abattoirs?
I don't understand the need for non stun (if we have a stunning process available and if it reduces stress/pain then it should be used) but am equally interested in how well or badly it works in practice
I have seen cattle killed non stun in an ''on farm'' situation with a knife and there was no noticeable stress ---it would surely be different in a larger commercial situation but as with all things it's not always the process but who does it ?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Afraid you don't believe it or afraid there isn't a better data set?

I'm interested in peoples experiences in visiting /comparing non stun and pre stun abattoirs?
I don't understand the need for non stun (if we have a stunning process available and if it reduces stress/pain then it should be used) but am equally interested in how well or badly it works in practice
I have seen cattle killed non stun in an ''on farm'' situation with a knife and there was no noticeable stress ---it would surely be different in a larger commercial situation but as with all things it's not always the process but who does it ?

I’m afraid I don’t have a better data sheet...but I would say a lot more stock is killed with non stun than you think

 

[Tim W]

Interesting they only did a survey of 225,000 sheep?

If they did a total from every animal in a month or in a set period in the UK then it would be realistic data. Also lambs and ewes would be a big difference? I know there’s 2 big ones that say on their websites that they use non stun.

Do some abattoirs have non stun and pre stun lines ?

Still interested in anyone that has 1st hand experience of following/comparing both practices

 

[sherg]

I’m afraid I don’t have a better data sheet...but I would say a lot more stock is killed with non stun than you think

Quite few of the buyers in the local markets here are buying for non stun abattoirs to be honest its a hell of a lot more than 25% going that way

 

[Muddyroads]

I'm sure i have seen data somewhere & it's a fairly low %age that is non-stun
Have you visited & compared a non stun and pre stun abattoir?

It’s a good and fair question. I’ve only been to stun abattoirs, and I think this is partly behind my original thought process. We probably shouldn’t condemn something we have no first hand experience of, but then again we stun first for a reason. It was interesting to talk it through with the slaughterman at the abattoir this morning, who is dead against non stun.
The Muslim faith does not require non stun, only the Jewish faith to my knowledge. The snowflake generation are too quick to suggest “what does the animal think” when they don’t think like us, but I’m pretty sure if I were to have my throat cut I’d rather be unconscious first. More importantly I’m sure the vast majority of lamb consumers would prefer to know that the animals were stunned first.