Red Tractor review ? How ?

[Clive]

Independence of Red Tractor review under threat - Farmers Weekly

Industry leaders have warned a pledged independent review into Red Tractor’s governance risks becoming a “whitewash”, after it emerged the assurance body

www.fwi.co.uk

So both AHDB and NFU have promised independent reviews into Red Tractor to dampen the flames caused by the farmer outrage over Greener Farm commitment plans

It's easy to promise such things but HOW do you do them INDEPENDENTLY ?

The NFU's track record is not good here, the last review they did into import "gatekeeper" standards with Tom Bradshaw and AIC was an absolute whitewash that concluded what it set out to whilst ignoring a lot of very inconvient facts ........ "we need red tractor". Once finished Tom was given a place on the AFS board ............... you could hardly make up such nepotism or conflict of interest !


If these reviews become yet another lip service sham I think the fallout will be massive - Farmers will resign on mass from Red Tractor and NFU and I reckon it would trigger calls for a vote on AHDB C&O sector closure. This is a pivotal moment in UK agricultures future IMO

Rumours even abound that RT themselves want to appoint who does the reviews. ........... they REALLY do have zero self awareness don't they


The reviews were promised separately - so AHDB will do one and so will NFU .......... or will they ? would it not make sense to just do one single review ? would that not be a watering down of a promise ? Did @Levy Believer Tom Clarke not tell us recently that independence was the AHDB's unique trait that make them worth a levy rise ?

WHO can lead such a review ? They can't possibly be connected to NFU or AHDB and remain independent, should a high court judge be appointed maybe ?


Conformation bias is almost impossible for humans to avoid there is a absolutely massive amount of farmer opinion and sentiment on TFF around this subject so if farmers views are to be truly represented in this review (s) how can that be achieved without conformation bias becoming a problem ?

I think this is a absolutely fantastic opportunity to use the power of AI - it has no opinion or conformation bias but is capable of reading every single word every said on the subject and analysing / quantifying every bit of data and sentiment from every single farmer to ever make comment upon it all. It could truly represent ALL farmers in these reviews in a way thats never been done before and can never be argued as bias

This technology exist, it's REALLY smart, and I would like to offer it to both AHDB and NFU to use in their reviews in hope that they will consider farmers views above all else

 

[Bald Rick]

So both AHDB and NFU have promised independent reviews into Red Tractor to dampen the flames caused by the farmer outrage over Greener Farm commitment plans

It's easy to promise such things but HOW do you do them INDEPENDENTLY ?

The NFU's track record is not good here, the last review they did into import "gatekeeper" stadrads with Tom Bradshaw and AIC was an absolute whitewash that concluded what it set out to ........ we need red tractor. Once finished Tom was given a place on the AFS board ............... you could hardly make it up !

The reviews were promised separately - so AHDB will do one and so will NFU .......... or will they ? would it not make sense to just do one single review ?

WHO can lead such a review ? They can't possibly be connected to NFU or AHDB and remain independent, should a judge be appointed maybe ?


Conformation bias is almost impossible for humans to avoid there is a absolutely massive amount of farmer opinion and sentiment on TFF around this subject so if farmers views are to be truly represented in this review (s) how can that be achieved without conformation bias becoming a problem ?

I think this is a absolutely fantastic opportunity to use the power of AI - it has no opinion or conformation bias but is capable of reading every single word every said on the subject and analysing / quantifying every bit of data and sentiment from every single farmer to ever make comment upon it all. It could truly represent ALL farmers in these reviews in a way thats never been done before and can never be argued as bias

This technology exist and I would like to offer it to both AHDB and NFU to use in their reviews in hope that they will copnsider farmers views above all else

Would quite happily AI them ..... although it might make their collective eyes water as my hands are quite large

On a serious note, the use of AI could be useful in removing bias but even then I suspect it could be manipulated to give the results that BRC and their clients want

 

[Clive]

Would quite happily AI them ..... although it might make their collective eyes water as my hands are quite large

On a serious note, the use of AI could be useful in removing bias but even then I suspect it could be manipulated to give the results that BRC and their clients want

it cant be manipulated, but it should be independently overseen, I don't think it should be the complete basis of a review but it really should be a big part of it

it is also basicaly free .............. I suspect everyone else involved wont be !


It's the only way you can ever really consider every voice in this

 

[willyorkshire]

So both AHDB and NFU have promised independent reviews into Red Tractor to dampen the flames caused by the farmer outrage over Greener Farm commitment plans

It's easy to promise such things but HOW do you do them INDEPENDENTLY ?

The NFU's track record is not good here, the last review they did into import "gatekeeper" stadrads with Tom Bradshaw and AIC was an absolute whitewash that concluded what it set out to ........ we need red tractor. Once finished Tom was given a place on the AFS board ............... you could hardly make it up !


If these reviews become yet another lip service sham I think the fallout will be massive - Farmers will resign on mass from Red Tractor and NFU and I reckon it would trigger calls for a vote on AHDB C&O sector closure. This is a pivotal moment in UK agricultures future IMO

The reviews were promised separately - so AHDB will do one and so will NFU .......... or will they ? would it not make sense to just do one single review ?

WHO can lead such a review ? They can't possibly be connected to NFU or AHDB and remain independent, should a high court judge be appointed maybe ?


Conformation bias is almost impossible for humans to avoid there is a absolutely massive amount of farmer opinion and sentiment on TFF around this subject so if farmers views are to be truly represented in this review (s) how can that be achieved without conformation bias becoming a problem ?

I think this is a absolutely fantastic opportunity to use the power of AI - it has no opinion or conformation bias but is capable of reading every single word every said on the subject and analysing / quantifying every bit of data and sentiment from every single farmer to ever make comment upon it all. It could truly represent ALL farmers in these reviews in a way thats never been done before and can never be argued as bias

This technology exist and I would like to offer it to both AHDB and NFU to use in their reviews in hope that they will copnsider farmers views above all else

Pleased to see you are back on the case Clive. No doubt Agritechnica was a welcome break!

 

[Bald Rick]

it cant be manipulated, but it should be independently overseen, I don't think it should be the complete basis of a review but it really should be a big part of it

it is also basicaly free .............. I suspect everyone else involved wont be !


It's the only way you can ever really consider every voice in this

I think any right thinking UK farmer doesn't mind some form of on-farm auditing to ensure that we are farming in a legal manner

To my mind, there are several planks that need addressing:

- Unfairness of meeting standards when imported foodstuff are not necessarily subject to the same scrutiny
- Add ons that are beyond the remit of a Standards Authority (for want of a better word) such as H&S and the GFC for example
- BRC not "playing fair" when it suits them by, for example, not universally adopting the RT (or equivalent) and promoting these foods over & above imports

However, I fear that the "Review" will follow the same lines as the "Independent" Commission that decided to deduct 10 points from Everton Football Club at the (hushed) bequest of the Premier League who are terrified of the Government imposing a Regulator

(Bitter? Damn tootin' right)

 

[Clive]

I think any right thinking UK farmer doesn't mind some form of on-farm auditing to ensure that we are farming in a legal manner

To my mind, there are several planks that need addressing:

- Unfairness of meeting standards when imported foodstuff are not necessarily subject to the same scrutiny
- Add ons that are beyond the remit of a Standards Authority (for want of a better word) such as H&S and the GFC for example
- BRC not "playing fair" when it suits them by, for example, not universally adopting the RT (or equivalent) and promoting these foods over & above imports

However, I fear that the "Review" will follow the same lines as the "Independent" Commission that decided to deduct 10 points from Everton Football Club at the (hushed) bequest of the Premier League who are terrified of the Government imposing a Regulator

(Bitter? Damn tootin' right)

AI would pull all that kind of thing (and much more). out of the millions of words written on TFF and even wider social media platforms - without that conformation bias that we all suffer from a humans

 

[Bald Rick]

AI would pull all that kind of thing (and much more). out of the millions of words written on TFF and even wider social media platforms - without that conformation bias that we all suffer from a humans

But what would happen if one side or the other doesn't accept the findings? After all, an AI search of RT on TFF would result in RT being burnt with FIRE and I doubt either NFU, BRC or the myriad other organisations with their sticky fingers in the pie would be overly happy either

 

[Clive]

But what would happen if one side or the other doesn't accept the findings? After all, an AI search of RT on TFF would result in RT being burnt with FIRE and I doubt either NFU, BRC or the myriad other organisations with their sticky fingers in the pie would be overly happy either

that's conformation bias right there ^^^ you are assuming that's what it will find but it true to say not everything ever written about it is negative and surely even those negatives need drilling deeper into to see why they are negatives etc. its can also look beyond the constraint of a single source like TFF


we ran it on a question about TFF sentiment towards the NFU a while ago when testing and you would probably be very surprised how neutral it was .......... I certainly was !

 

[gone up the hill]

Well apparently Tom Bradshaw is now saying he is very confused and is not sure what was or was not agreed at the Sept Board meeting!

In the review,

AHDB should do their own review

NFU should do their own review

RT should do their own review

All independent of each other!

And the result is all three will not agree about what went on and they will end up falling out with each other over who's review is correct!

 

[milkloss]

If these reviews become yet another lip service sham I think the fallout will be massive - Farmers will resign on mass from Red Tractor and NFU and I reckon it would trigger calls for a vote on AHDB C&O sector closure. This is a pivotal moment in UK agricultures future IMO

It’s a pivotal moment in ag now given everything that’s going on. I have a feeling there might be a bit of confirmation bias in your statement above. I’m not so sure many farmers will be strong or thinking independently enough to kick off about any of the issues you raise. Very likely the “reviews” will placate most of them and Stockholm syndrome will prevent a rebellion of any sort.

A lot more support on the ground will be needed to ensure a decent run at it…… reports I hear from Nfu meetings round about suggest that there isn’t the motivation there yet.

I wish I was better at writing posts but I think you get the gist!

 

[Drillman]

Has this review started yet?

who has been contacted for feed back on red tractor? Every AG organisation was to be involved I read so the views of TFF the BFU and the British farming forum on FB should be included.

Not sure who else they can ask apart from the NFU to give a positive balance though

 

[graham mc]

they think we is stoopid

 

[Tamar]

I have done my review of RT.

Conclusion : It has cost me more in money, time and mental grief in the past 20 years than the benefits it promised.
That is why I ditched the rusty tractor

 

[willyorkshire]

I have done my review of RT.

Conclusion : It has cost me more in money, time and mental grief in the past 20 years than the benefits it promised.
That is why I ditched the rusty tractor

If only!

 

[Clive]

Has this review started yet?

who has been contacted for feed back on red tractor? Every AG organisation was to be involved I read so the views of TFF the BFU and the British farming forum on FB should be included.

Not sure who else they can ask apart from the NFU to give a positive balance though

I think they announced the reviews simply to calm things down as the pitchforks were clearly coming ! - now they face the reality of how do actaully deliver them

this is no easy task if they do intend to do it properly

 

[MrNoo]

I have done my review of RT.

Conclusion : It has cost me more in money, time and mental grief in the past 20 years than the benefits it promised.
That is why I ditched the rusty tractor

Snap

 

[Tamar]

If only!

The more that ditch the scheme, the more likely the buyers will have to buy non FA products ……. To mix with their non FA foreign imported products !!


46% of food eaten in the U.K. is imported. That is all non RT assured. Why the fudge are we pissing about with RT !?!

 

[colhonk]

Just a whitewash to calm us farmers down.

 

[Drillman]

I think they announced the reviews simply to calm things down as the pitchforks were clearly coming ! - now they face the reality of how do actaully deliver them

this is no easy task if they do intend to do it properly

Well I got my pitchfork sharpened and loaded up with nice dry straw, if they don’t do it right I shall be fishing the swan vestas out

 

[tullah]

They'll try and palm us off with something that's similar to RT under a different guise and logo.

We don't want anything other than to meet the basic standards of imports which means next to no requirements at all.
As you say if non regulated imports are ok to put in the food chain then surely home produced is, as it's of a higher standard anyway, being subject to stricter laws here on what chemicals we may and may not use.
Im surprised the educated people at Nfu, who are paid to be on our side havent been able to understand this for years. Or is there some other underlying reason why they refuse to act for us. If this same scenario had been played out within industry then lots of people by now would have had the pants sued off them. Maybe we should do the same, as god knows what they've stolen from us all over the last twenty or so years.

The British Farming Union are the only people with the getup and go to put a stop to this for us. Join up and it will happen.