Redrilling capped slumped soil with winter wheat

[Rich Beach]

I have an area of winter wheat land that has capped badly & has been lying wet for a couple of months such that the seed has failed to germinate. Would like to redrill with winter wheat as the surface has dried nicely. Still quite wet & slumped underneath the cap though. Do I attempt to go straight in with the p.harrow drill combi or run a tine through first which would mean it having to dry for a few days before I drill it. Any thoughts or ideas ?

 

[jd6420s]

I've gone straight in with the combi drill before and it's come up well in the spring. It's often still very wet lower down so you you want to leave that well alone. If the tractor is going to travel okay I'd go straight in with the combi drill but don't go too deep.

 

[Cowcorn]

I have an area of winter wheat land that has capped badly & has been lying wet for a couple of months such that the seed has failed to germinate. Would like to redrill with winter wheat as the surface has dried nicely. Still quite wet & slumped underneath the cap though. Do I attempt to go straight in with the p.harrow drill combi or run a tine through first which would mean it having to dry for a few days before I drill it. Any thoughts or ideas ?

Run the tines through first to let the drying in. Waste of time combi drilling again as the last thing it needs is another power harrow flogging. If you have a MF 3 0 or a mounted nordsten etc then just drill into the tined soil .

 

[Brisel]

What machine was it drilled with last time?

 

[Flat 10]

Sounds like you want to beg borrow or steal a tine drill to me

 

[Rich Beach]

Ploughed, p harrowed & Vaaderstad drilled first time.

 

[Mr Charisma]

Ploughed, p harrowed & Vaaderstad drilled first time.

I hate to get the power harrow anywhere near the vaddy drill but depends on your soil type
But just the fact that you are think g about getting on the ground makes me think you are on easy ground.
If that's the case then in a wet year I should think it was over worked or over drilled but there's a lot of hindsight involved here

 

[Rich Beach]

You are dead right. It was drilled on the last day before the weather broke at end of September & has been lying wet since then. It hasn't helped that it was potatoes in 2018. The power harrow is generally a last resort as most of our land is Rexius Twinned & then Vaaderstad drilled.

 

[Brisel]

The reason I asked the question was my concern that the topsoil may have slumped. What does it look like underneath? If the power harrow smeared a layer then that needs breaking up.

 

[bankrupt]

I have an area of winter wheat land that has capped badly & has been lying wet for a couple of months such that the seed has failed to germinate. Would like to redrill with winter wheat as the surface has dried nicely.

We found ourselves in exactly this same position here on 4th Dec last, Rich Beach.

Dried nicely, re-drilled it in very good conditions at 300kg/hectare, and the result - yet another total failure.

No doubt this was due to the 240mm of further rain we had before expected emergence and despite it all having been re-moled in September.

Now planning to do it for the third time, sometime before "End Jan".

 

[ajd132]

Probably wouldn’t make a difference if loads of rain has fallen but is the heavily cultivated soil with no structure making it more likely to slump and cause crop failures?

 

[bankrupt]

soil with no structure making it more likely to slump ?

Yes, but the weight of the rain is the crucial difference.

Exchanging every three acres of Devonian for two of chalk would now seem to me to be the optimal long-term solution for successful farming.

Only wish I'd done it 55 years ago.

 

[Rich Beach]

We found ourselves in exactly this same position here on 4th Dec last, Rich Beach.

Dried nicely, re-drilled it in very good conditions at 300kg/hectare, and the result - yet another total failure.

No doubt this was due to the 240mm of further rain we had before expected emergence and despite it all having been re-moled in September.

Now planning to do it for the third time, sometime before "End Jan".

10mm last night and the water is finding it hard to drain away through the profile. If a weeks dry weather is forecast I feel I ought to run a triple K tine through it just below any pan that is stopping the water from draining away. Then I will re-assess & if I don't sow it with wheat will sow a phacelia/fodder radish/linseed cover crop to re-structure for next season.

 

[DrWazzock]

Leave it till April and drill with spring barley or just leave it.

 

[Two Tone]

Leave it till April and drill with spring barley or just leave it.

I have to agree.
We’ve all tried it and no matter what you do it will fail again unless I’d doesn’t rain much until its germinated and well up. This never seems to happen this time of the year. You’ll end up having done far more harm than good.

 

[bankrupt]

it will fail again unless I’d doesn’t rain much until its germinated and well up.

Quite so, Two Tone.

But, given the appalling unreliability of all the forecasters this time, best bet would now seem to be, given every half a chance, to put it all in again and again until finally it comes up good.

To frustrate this, the weather, if it's to win, needs to be lucky always.

We only need to be lucky once.

 

[Farma Parma]

ive got couple of headlands much the same really slumped with the rain but to get a 2nd sowing of something away it would need moving with a cultivator id say
iam not gonna re do these ones, there still v wet atm.
Having a diff crop on a headland is a PAIN for agchems & fert job.
First loss is your best loss they always say.
What it will get is a proper subsoiling after harvest tho & pray its better next year.

 

[DrWazzock]

Much depends on soil type, whether there are wet hollows, state of the under drains if there are any, but generally patience pays.

Next thing we will be complaining we have lost too much moisture though.
I am wary of high disturbance fines on heavy land here. We end up with big clods dried out that won't crumble.

Plough if it's half dry enough and let the weather break it down, that's if it hasn't already been worked to a pudding.
Direct drill maybe after low disturbance subsoiler but again, no good if it's smearing.

Maybe just direct drill when it's good and dry and will travel without making a mess if it was worked in the Autumn.

Need to be there on the ground to know really, with a spade. Plasticine is a no go.

 

[bankrupt]

Plasticine is a no go.

Quite so, DrWazzock.

It's how best to avoid it wot's the problem.

My solution (see above) is to relocate, one farm at a time, to the chalk.

 

[Farma Parma]

Yes, but the weight of the rain is the crucial difference.

Exchanging every three acres of Devonian for two of chalk would now seem to me to be the optimal long-term solution for successful farming.

Only wish I'd done it 55 years ago.

Isnt it for every inch of rain fallen its equ to a 100t of weight on the ground or something?