regulations regarding barn conversions/permitted developement

[dannewhouse]

im thinking of converting 2 barns into dwellings, the 1 is 2 storey and will split to 2 houses.

the second is attached but only single storey (old mistle) and lends to splitting into 2 for bungalows but its a tad small, there is a stone and block built stable 20ft x 25ft attached which I want to include into 1 of the bungalows but it would need re walling with matching stone to look smart. (I could just carry the roof through over it so it wouldn't look like an extension)

what are the regulations regarding permitted development? as far as I'm aware the only part I don't comply with is that its a max of 3 dwellings? so just do 2 in 1 name 2 in another?

I do need to add windows and doors but they are mostly correct.
any ideas how much full planning would cost as I'm happy to do it as long as its not too expensive

 

[phillipe]

im thinking of converting 2 barns into dwellings, the 1 is 2 storey and will split to 2 houses.

the second is attached but only single storey (old mistle) and lends to splitting into 2 for bungalows but its a tad small, there is a stone and block built stable 20ft x 25ft attached which I want to include into 1 of the bungalows but it would need re walling with matching stone to look smart. (I could just carry the roof through over it so it wouldn't look like an extension)

what are the regulations regarding permitted development? as far as I'm aware the only part I don't comply with is that its a max of 3 dwellings? so just do 2 in 1 name 2 in another?

I do need to add windows and doors but they are mostly correct.
any ideas how much full planning would cost as I'm happy to do it as long as its not too expensive

find your architect,our local has a great approval rate,they will quote you for the job ,here cheapest sometimes is not best,ask around for a local who has been around for a long time and knows how the planners think and work ,

 

[dannewhouse]

i think they would pass it just don't need the grief of bat surveys and all that sh!t when I can actually do them under permitted development. and the added cost involved with the whole planning permission rather than just doing it.

 

[Pilgrimmick]

I converted (for that read, am in the process of converting) into an attached stone barn. I did not need planning permission as it was considered an ancillary building, (Never found out what one of those was!), however I did need a building warrant as I was converting from a unheated space to a heated space. If I had known before I applied it would have previously been heated!!!!
I have added doors, windows etc and all not requiring planning.
The only thing that has upset them is how long it is taking!

 

[Forever Fendt]

im thinking of converting 2 barns into dwellings, the 1 is 2 storey and will split to 2 houses.

the second is attached but only single storey (old mistle) and lends to splitting into 2 for bungalows but its a tad small, there is a stone and block built stable 20ft x 25ft attached which I want to include into 1 of the bungalows but it would need re walling with matching stone to look smart. (I could just carry the roof through over it so it wouldn't look like an extension)

what are the regulations regarding permitted development? as far as I'm aware the only part I don't comply with is that its a max of 3 dwellings? so just do 2 in 1 name 2 in another?

I do need to add windows and doors but they are mostly correct.
any ideas how much full planning would cost as I'm happy to do it as long as its not too expensive

Use your part Q allowance then go back for full planning on the other bit, but remember the part Qs must be ag use or last use ag

 

[phillipe]

i think they would pass it just don't need the grief of bat surveys and all that sh!t when I can actually do them under permitted development. and the added cost involved with the whole planning permission rather than just doing it.

You are creating 3 new dwellings,you will need full planning,bat surveys ,a ecological survey ,if you do it and get reported you probably never get planning ,a heavy fine and made to put it back as was,tread carefully ,you have to do the dance with the planners ,maybe the roofs could blow off maybe ?

 

[dannewhouse]

as far as I'm aware I only have to build to building regs etc similar to uncovering existing footings and building from them?

the only slight thing I have found where I'm not quite right with the permitted development is that it is for a maximum of 3 dwellings which I would be doing 4 but I could easily do 2 in my name and 2 in another?

>same argument as your roof blowing off (regards bat survey etc) I can turn the roof and leeve it as a barn without a bat survey so whats difference if it is to be a dwelling. also the buildings are actually sealed ie fully doors and windows (maybe drafty but a bat cant get in) so do I need a survey any way?


my plan is to know the regulations inside out so that I am correct doing it under permitted development I have briefly had a conversation with a planning officer a year ago about it the general opinion was that even though I maybe able to do it with permitted they would like to see an application. my plan is to make a good start ie roofs off back wall down etc (plenty photos before/during) then apply when its too late for bat survey etc as long as I am correct under permitted.

 

[phillipe]

Are you changing the appearance of the building?,are you changing the use of the buildings? Are you doing any work that may harm thr flora and fauna,? If yes to any of the above you will need full planning ,. Permitted development iss a very small alteration ,you are contemplaating major aa!terations ,you will need a full set of plans drawn for planning and regs

 

[dannewhouse]

Are you changing the appearance of the building?,are you changing the use of the buildings? Are you doing any work that may harm thr flora and fauna,? If yes to any of the above you will need full planning ,. Permitted development iss a very small alteration ,you are contemplaating major aa!terations ,you will need a full set of plans drawn for planning and regs

but if you excavate and find old foundations of a building you can build from the existing footings without needing planning permission I have seen a few sites done this way?

 

[Forever Fendt]

as far as I'm aware I only have to build to building regs etc similar to uncovering existing footings and building from them?

the only slight thing I have found where I'm not quite right with the permitted development is that it is for a maximum of 3 dwellings which I would be doing 4 but I could easily do 2 in my name and 2 in another?

>same argument as your roof blowing off (regards bat survey etc) I can turn the roof and leeve it as a barn without a bat survey so whats difference if it is to be a dwelling. also the buildings are actually sealed ie fully doors and windows (maybe drafty but a bat cant get in) so do I need a survey any way?


my plan is to know the regulations inside out so that I am correct doing it under permitted development I have briefly had a conversation with a planning officer a year ago about it the general opinion was that even though I maybe able to do it with permitted they would like to see an application. my plan is to make a good start ie roofs off back wall down etc (plenty photos before/during) then apply when its too late for bat survey etc as long as I am correct under permitted.

you will not be entitled to permitted development if you have erected any farm buildings on the farm since 20th march 2013 if they were approved under the prior notification process ,but if you had full planning its fine , be careful taking anything down and rebuilding it you could come unstuck

 

[phillipe]

but if you excavate and find old foundations of a building you can build from the existing footings without needing planning permission I have seen a few sites done this way?

Somebody has beeen pulling you leg ,maybe a few decades ago but not now, you need planning for a velux these days ,you have to comply with the rules otherwise it will come back and bite you ,.get yourself a architect round to sdvise you of what you can and cant do ,they will quote you ,better to be safe than in court

 

[phillipe]

Around here if the walls are good enough to be used ,they will not let you take them down to rebuild ,

 

[dannewhouse]

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/barn-conversions-to-be-permitted.html
3rd paragraph start:
The specific proposal is that up to 3 additional dwelling houses (which could include flats) could be converted on an agricultural unit which already existed on 20 March 2013, with an upper limit of 150 sq m for each dwelling

I have read this on something of a better source ie government/planning rather than just a random website.


regards taking the walls down and rebuilding surely I could do that and put windows doors etc in ie make it a watertight shell and still deem it a barn then apply for pp / claim its permitted development

regards wether I have put different buildings up, I have put 2 buildings up in the timeframe both full planning which is why this project was discussed when the planning officer was out.

I agree with you comply with rules or it will bite you, I just want to know the regulations of permitted thoroughly before I accept full planning (I'm happy to do it aslong as it isn't costing ££££ for silly bats n stuff!)

 

[phillipe]

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/barn-conversions-to-be-permitted.html
3rd paragraph start:
The specific proposal is that up to 3 additional dwelling houses (which could include flats) could be converted on an agricultural unit which already existed on 20 March 2013, with an upper limit of 150 sq m for each dwelling

I have read this on something of a better source ie government/planning rather than just a random website.


regards taking the walls down and rebuilding surely I could do that and put windows doors etc in ie make it a watertight shell and still deem it a barn then apply for pp / claim its permitted development

regards wether I have put different buildings up, I have put 2 buildings up in the timeframe both full planning which is why this project was discussed when the planning officer was out.

I agree with you comply with rules or it will bite you, I just want to know the regulations of permitted thoroughly before I accept full planning (I'm happy to do it aslong as it isn't costing ££££ for silly bats n stuff!)

Fair enough ,but planners arnt stupid ,donyounhaVe nosey neighbours ? Do you get on with them?

 

[dannewhouse]

Fair enough ,but planners arnt stupid ,donyounhaVe nosey neighbours ? Do you get on with them?

yes plenty and odd ones nope! ... I applied for planning on a cattle shed (because that's what it is no a machinery/general store cop out) and I think 3 neighbours raised concern only 1 major. planning wrote to me and asked why I couldn't use a different shed on the farm (obviously full/used already) why it had to be that location (so I suggested I could build it on the "low" side of the farm but may need to tip a few thousand ton to make it level < they suggested my place was better) I had to provide evidence/ justification for needing it so printed an arial view of farm labelled buildings and use / stocking volume and printed CTS holding record of number cattle. the neighbour wasn't satisfied so raised it with an MP < the MP couldn't see a problem but as its policy I ended up in town hall planning. I represented myself the neighbour paid a planning consultant needless to say I won my case 13 votes to 0. my second application had 0 complaints.
I could have spent a lot of money having representation then which would have been wasted, this is why I want to do as much as possible myself.

 

[phillipe]

So there are pictures of the buildings as they are ?

 

[dannewhouse]

There are some pics of buildings as is.
the back wall isn't quite as good (I have seen better remain standing but I would rather re do it)
see what you think to these designs: they are not final and some of them have furniture in wrong places (across windows <I copied and pasted from a different design)
edit I also plan to swap the kitchen/dining and living rooms over so the living dining Is in the larger half

 

[rob1]

Are you changing the appearance of the building?,are you changing the use of the buildings? Are you doing any work that may harm thr flora and fauna,? If yes to any of the above you will need full planning ,. Permitted development iss a very small alteration ,you are contemplaating major aa!terations ,you will need a full set of plans drawn for planning and regs

no no no, ag buildings have PD rights for conversion to housing as well as other uses now

 

[phillipe]

no no no, ag buildings have PD rights for conversion to housing as well as other uses now

If you change the apperance of the bbuilding you will need planning ,if you change the use of a building you will need planning,ye you are allowed to do it but with planning

 

[rob1]

http://planninglawblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/barn-conversions-to-be-permitted.html
3rd paragraph start:
The specific proposal is that up to 3 additional dwelling houses (which could include flats) could be converted on an agricultural unit which already existed on 20 March 2013, with an upper limit of 150 sq m for each dwelling

I have read this on something of a better source ie government/planning rather than just a random website.


regards taking the walls down and rebuilding surely I could do that and put windows doors etc in ie make it a watertight shell and still deem it a barn then apply for pp / claim its permitted development

regards wether I have put different buildings up, I have put 2 buildings up in the timeframe both full planning which is why this project was discussed when the planning officer was out.

I agree with you comply with rules or it will bite you, I just want to know the regulations of permitted thoroughly before I accept full planning (I'm happy to do it aslong as it isn't costing ££££ for silly bats n stuff!)

You can repair the roof and walls but putting windows in might get the council claim it isnt ag, we have one we will be doing and will do the roof before we put in the PD ap