Research on the Impact of the Ban on Bee-Harming Pesticides and What is Next in Farming.

[wanton dwarf]

I would love to hear more of your opinion on why the drones may not be sufficient! I think it is possible that very early detection of larvae and precise usage of pesticides on flea beetles, could potentially help farmers.

You've just said it.

What "Pesticide" are you going to use when the "Pesticide" that works is BANNED. The banned pesticide is systemic - stays residual in the plant and therefore appears in the flowers nectar. Hence the risk to bees.

How are you going to detect "Larvae" from an electric drone - the way an parasitic wasp would do it is by electric bio signals, which will be overwhelmed by the electric fields from the motors.

I'd also point out that most plants will be infected with Lavae - if they weren't we would be still growing the crops as they would be viable.

There was never a need for "Precise" in the first place.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

You've just said it.

What "Pesticide" are you going to use when the "Pesticide" that works is BANNED. The banned pesticide is systemic - stays residual in the plant and therefore appears in the flowers nectar. Hence the risk to bees.

How are you going to detect "Larvae" from an electric drone - the way an parasitic wasp would do it is by electric bio signals, which will be overwhelmed by the electric fields from the motors.

I'd also point out that most plants will be infected with Lavae - if they weren't we would be still growing the crops as they would be viable.

There was never a need for "Precise" in the first place.

Hi there,

Thank you so much for your reply! It's certainly very informative!

The way many drones are detecting things like flea beetle is through machine learning and picture recognition, some times even using special cameras that could see the little buggers moving! So your concern on the motors might not affect it as much but it is certainly noted!

Also, if we are able to spray small amount and precise amount of the pesticides that are currently banned for the mass usage, or use other pesticides in concentrated amount in small areas, it could potentially have a different effect to public opinion and the environment.

 

[wanton dwarf]

What would make more sense would be research into how a Flea Beetle gets attracted to Oilseed Rape in the first place.

Cabbage plants all emit a distinct aroma - which I guess would be how a Flea Beetle targets plants in the first place.

Then you'd need to look at the behaviour of the beetle as it approaches the plants. Does is land on the plant or the soil and crawl up the plant.

From there you might be able to create "Traps" which target populations as they fly to fields or target the sites where beetle are prone to land. I think Tsetse flies in Africa were researched using enclosures of 10s or even 100s of cattle and the aroma used to net flies.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Hi there,

Thank you so much for your reply! It's certainly very informative!

The way many drones are detecting things like flea beetle is through machine learning and picture recognition, some times even using special cameras that could see the little buggers moving! So your concern on the motors might not affect it as much but it is certainly noted!

Also, if we are able to spray small amount and precise amount of the pesticides that are currently banned for the mass usage, or use other pesticides in concentrated amount in small areas, it could potentially have a different effect to public opinion and the environment.

As I've said the pesticide is systemic. The action of "Spraying" is not the issue. The systemic retention of the pesticide in the nectar is. The ability to target a few plants is of no interest when the majority of plants are infected - which is the problem.

Targetting individual flea beetles is extremly difficult given the size of the beetle and shape (perhaps they reflect light differently) - I'd be interested myself in this technology for weed identification and spraying. So if you have information on how to link real time images through to processing and image/pattern recognition can you link some information.

Although I think I'm going to try precision inter row instead and blanket weed removal as it's both quicker and less process intensive/prone to error.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

As I've said the pesticide is systemic. The action of "Spraying" is not the issue. The systemic retention of the pesticide in the nectar is. The ability to target a few plants is of no interest when the majority of plants are infected - which is the problem.

Targetting individual flea beetles is extremly difficult given the size of the beetle and shape (perhaps they reflect light differently) - I'd be interested myself in this technology for weed identification and spraying. So if you have information on how to link real time images through to processing and image/pattern recognition can you link some information.

Although I think I'm going to try precision inter row instead and blanket weed removal as it's both quicker and less process intensive/prone to error.

Certainly!

That's why the project focuses on early detection and action so that hot spots for the beetles are destroyed before all of the field is infected. Also it is not necessarily killing individual insects, but to detect crowd of insect that has formed in spots of the field and spraying only around that spot. If it is possible I would love to talk with you more the subject. My email is [email protected], please feel free to drop me an email anytime!

 

[wanton dwarf]

Certainly!

That's why the project focuses on early detection and action so that hot spots for the beetles are destroyed before all of the field is infected. Also it is not necessarily killing individual insects, but to detect crowd of insect that has formed in spots of the field and spraying only around that spot. If it is possible I would love to talk with you more the subject. My email is [email protected], please feel free to drop me an email anytime!

From what I've seen there are no hot spots. The whole field is infected usually from last years Oilseed crops in neighbouring fields.

From what I've seen individual plants are not swarmed by larvae. Was just thinking about this while walking the dog. So that means Flea Beetles must know not to lay eggs on or near a plant where other beeles have. So I guess they must place a marker around where they lay eggs. Need to understand Flea Beetle mode of action in detail. Or the larvae drop a chemical marker as they crawl.

Being able to mimic that marker and/or place a sticky substance to catch insects/larvae as they hatch would be useful.


"Life-cycle

In April and May the adults emerge from their overwintering sites and in favourable conditions fly distances of up to 1 kilometre in search of suitable plants to start feeding. Eggs are laid alongside host plants and after 2-3 weeks the larvae emerge and feed on the leaves and roots. When fully fed the larvae pupate in the soil and 6-8 weeks later the adults emerge and search for sources of food. In late autumn the adults hibernate in tussocky grass, hedges or other sheltered locations. There is only 1 generation per year."


So do the larvae crawl up the plant stem or are the eggs layed on the plant ? If you could target the eggs ...

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

From what I've seen there are no hot spots. The whole field is infected usually from last years Oilseed crops in neighbouring fields.

From what I've seen individual plants are not swarmed by larvae. Was just thinking about this while walking the dog. So that means Flea Beetles must know not to lay eggs on or near a plant where other beeles have. So I guess they must place a marker around where they lay eggs. Need to understand Flea Beetle mode of action in detail. Or the larvae drop a chemical marker as they crawl.

Being able to mimic that marker and/or place a sticky substance to catch insects/larvae as they hatch would be useful.


"Life-cycle

In April and May the adults emerge from their overwintering sites and in favourable conditions fly distances of up to 1 kilometre in search of suitable plants to start feeding. Eggs are laid alongside host plants and after 2-3 weeks the larvae emerge and feed on the leaves and roots. When fully fed the larvae pupate in the soil and 6-8 weeks later the adults emerge and search for sources of food. In late autumn the adults hibernate in tussocky grass, hedges or other sheltered locations. There is only 1 generation per year."


So do the larvae crawl up the plant stem or are the eggs layed on the plant ? If you could target the eggs ...

That is an incredible idea! It is exactly what the project aims to achieve. Machine learning is very good at the tasks you have listed there and it will automatically find these patterns! Now if you are thinking about the project on your walk, I think I might just be thick-skinned enough to ask you if you wish to be interviewed for this project!
ps.Love walking dogs in the countryside!

 

[Highland Mule]

It was a bit of an exaggerated example but to any adult it's obvious what your point is.

Those offended want to be offended and take the opportunity to be offended.

Sadly, it appears that the snowflakes have won on this occasion. Disappointing moderator response, IMHO.

Any thoughts on whether I should report the OP for his cross posting the same thing on multiple parts of the forum (rule 9)?

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Sadly, it appears that the snowflakes have won on this occasion. Disappointing moderator response, IMHO.

Any thoughts on whether I should report the OP for his cross posting the same thing on multiple parts of the forum (rule 9)?

Please don't do that, there are many people who have posted amazing responses that offer amazing perspectives on the subject.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Sadly, it appears that the snowflakes have won on this occasion. Disappointing moderator response, IMHO.

Any thoughts on whether I should report the OP for his cross posting the same thing on multiple parts of the forum (rule 9)?

Just ignore the dude for sanity's sake.

 

[Highland Mule]

Just ignore the dude for sanity's sake.

But he posts such amazing stuff.

 

[Storeman]

Sadly, it appears that the snowflakes have won on this occasion. Disappointing moderator response, IMHO.

Any thoughts on whether I should report the OP for his cross posting the same thing on multiple parts of the forum (rule 9)?

I thought it was verging on spam.

 

[Boysground]

Sadly, it appears that the snowflakes have won on this occasion. Disappointing moderator response, IMHO.

Any thoughts on whether I should report the OP for his cross posting the same thing on multiple parts of the forum (rule 9)?

This has been confusing me, I’ve been thinking I had posted and nothing appeared. Something needs sorting

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[Boysground]

@Clive please could you get the 2 threads merged. I can’t take the confusion

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[RobertTheEngineer]

I'm very sorry about the confusion and offensive content. It's certainly my fault as I am very new to exploring the topic in agriculture. Please accept my sincere apologies.

 

[Highland Mule]

@Clive please could you get the 2 threads merged. I can’t take the confusion

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At least three threads !