Robert Forster: Wide adoption of contract rearing processor owned beef cattle moves closer.

[The Beef]

you can do that with your own cattle, all you need now is an end price, as I have said a few times let them bid for next years cattle just say a price it can't be that difficult can it

I suppose so - just a question of individual circumstances and the risk factors etc etc

 

[The Beef]

their best advice is to do just what the supermarket says
RT...........

OK then they need to up their game too

 

[Hilly]

you can do that with your own cattle, all you need now is an end price, as I have said a few times let them bid for next years cattle just say a price it can't be that difficult can it

dosent everyone, i make the silage buy the straw and find out the price of feed while the sheds are empty in summer, come winter i know whats going on.

 

[Hilly]

OK then they need to up their game too

You should just keep B&B pigs and be done.

 

[Henarar]

You should just keep B&B pigs and be done.

chap I know done that and they kept tightening the rules more and more BS till he told them to stick it where the sun don't shine, the tales he use to tell about their inspections and the rubbish they came up with would have been funny as hell if they weren't serious

 

[Hilly]

chap I know done that and they kept tightening the rules more and more BS till he told them to stick it where the sun don't shine, the tales he use to tell about their inspections and the rubbish they came up with would have been funny as hell if they weren't serious

I wouldn't know, but alot doing it now so i suppose as more volunteer to do the job the margin etc will dwindle away i suspect. Imagine the competition of contract beef finishing ! you`d end up having to pay them to have the cattle

 

[Hilly]

and the need for the bank is reduced because you haven't got the capital outlay - win win

You dont have the mentality to run a business go get a job and be a wage slave its your destination.

 

[topground]

any contract written by those buggers would want to be gone though with a fine tooth come by someone far brighter than me and then checked again a few more times

Enforcing the terms of a contract is fine in theory but if there is a lack,of trust in the relationship and it breaks down you have only the courts to,fall back in and the costs involved put legal action out of reach of all but the big players.
Do not take on legal action unless you can afford to lose.
Supermarket contracts will be drawn up by more expensive lawyers than you can afford and will be interpreted by more expensive lawyers than you can afford. Once entered into that contract you lose any flexibility in managing your business for your benefit and the other party knows that and will squeeze you accordngly.
This is the case with any business that gets into bed with these people and the only ones that survive long term are those that maintain the flexibility of more than one outlet for their goods.
Those of you who advocate entering into contracts with these people, if you disagree with my view please explain why.

 

[Hilly]

Enforcing the terms of a contract is fine in theory but if there is a lack,of trust in the relationship and it breaks down you have only the courts to,fall back in and the costs involved put legal action out of reach of all but the big players.
Do not take on legal action unless you can afford to lose.
Supermarket contracts will be drawn up by more expensive lawyers than you can afford and will be interpreted by more expensive lawyers than you can afford. Once entered into that contract you lose any flexibility in managing your business for your benefit and the other party knows that and will squeeze you accordngly.
This is the case with any business that gets into bed with these people and the only ones that survive long term are those that maintain the flexibility of more than one outlet for their goods.
Those of you who advocate entering into contracts with these people, if you disagree with my view please explain why.

The ones that survive and thrive supplying these people produce products with little to no competition, beef=lots of competition=no a hope in hell of thriving surviving will be hard going alone.

 

[The Beef]

Enforcing the terms of a contract is fine in theory but if there is a lack,of trust in the relationship and it breaks down you have only the courts to,fall back in and the costs involved put legal action out of reach of all but the big players.
Do not take on legal action unless you can afford to lose.
Supermarket contracts will be drawn up by more expensive lawyers than you can afford and will be interpreted by more expensive lawyers than you can afford. Once entered into that contract you lose any flexibility in managing your business for your benefit and the other party knows that and will squeeze you accordngly.
This is the case with any business that gets into bed with these people and the only ones that survive long term are those that maintain the flexibility of more than one outlet for their goods.
Those of you who advocate entering into contracts with these people, if you disagree with my view please explain why.

I have already said you shouldn't enter any sort of contract you're not happy with or you don't understand. When their cattle are in your yard their ability to say we're not paying isn't quite the same as telling you they aren't paying the agreed price for cattle you own, where they can just walk away without a backward glance.
Any contract that's worth considering has to reflect and reward the expertise and commitment of both sides to make it work in the first place. Of course the option to carry on as you are is still there - I am certainly not going to advocate entering a contract to those that cant understand the concept in the first instance.

 

[Henarar]

having their cattle in your yard could well be a disadvantage in any dispute, you can't sell them as they are not yours and I may be wrong but I don't think you can stop them collecting them as they belong to them and also you have to feed and take care of them as they are in your care

 

[matthew]

I have already said you shouldn't enter any sort of contract you're not happy with or you don't understand. When their cattle are in your yard their ability to say we're not paying isn't quite the same as telling you they aren't paying the agreed price for cattle you own, where they can just walk away without a backward glance.
Any contract that's worth considering has to reflect and reward the expertise and commitment of both sides to make it work in the first place. Of course the option to carry on as you are is still there - I am certainly not going to advocate entering a contract to those that cant understand the concept in the first instance.

Right of Title.
If the owner lodges a RoT against his goods (or cattle) he may remove same, leaving you with empty yards and a battle recover your costs.

 

[The Beef]

You dont have the mentality to run a business go get a job and be a wage slave its your destination.

Earlier on in the thread you told me I wouldn't be where I am if my grandfather had put me here. I asked you to give your reasoning but you didn't.
Now you come out with this - what's up do you feel so threatened by thoughtful debate that you have to start throwing insults?

FYI in England where I farm historic SPS has been replaced by area payments. This and due to several reasons within that has led to my SPS being reduced by 80%. The provincial governments have helped their farmers with capital grants that have not been available in England. Plus in Scotland your leaders have made a damn good job of working toward eradicating BVD for example. The fact that I am still here earning a living that would see me in the top 1/3 QMS figures says quite the opposite to your assertions. Indeed I have only got there by making big decisions and thinking bloody hard and then doing the job as well as I can.
If you want to go down the route of throwing insults then you get on and do it - insults thrown by those with not enough intellect to get anywhere near the mark can go on the muckhill where they belong. Please come up with something a little more accurate backed by sound reasoning or at least make them funny.

 

[Hilly]

I have already said you shouldn't enter any sort of contract you're not happy with or you don't understand. When their cattle are in your yard their ability to say we're not paying isn't quite the same as telling you they aren't paying the agreed price for cattle you own, where they can just walk away without a backward glance.
Any contract that's worth considering has to reflect and reward the expertise and commitment of both sides to make it work in the first place. Of course the option to carry on as you are is still there - I am certainly not going to advocate entering a contract to those that cant understand the concept in the first instance.

But when you walk away you have nothing, 99% wont be able to walk away, most wont even get a start, what you will be up against is big players taken big numbers on tiny margins , alot wil do the job just for the p&k and keep the staff entertained through out the winter, their wont be anything in it for the man who actual needs to make a living from the job.

 

[Hilly]

Earlier on in the thread you told me I wouldn't be where I am if my grandfather had put me here. I asked you to give your reasoning but you didn't.
Now you come out with this - what's up do you feel so threatened by thoughtful debate that you have to start throwing insults?

FYI in England where I farm historic SPS has been replaced by area payments. This and due to several reasons within that has led to my SPS being reduced by 80%. The provincial governments have helped their farmers with capital grants that have not been available in England. Plus in Scotland your leaders have made a damn good job of working toward eradicating BVD for example. The fact that I am still here earning a living that would see me in the top 1/3 QMS figures says quite the opposite to your assertions. Indeed I have only got there by making big decisions and thinking bloody hard and then doing the job as well as I can.
If you want to go down the route of throwing insults then you get on and do it - insults thrown by those with not enough intellect to get anywhere near the mark can go on the muckhill where they belong. Please come up with something a little more accurate backed by sound reasoning or at least make them funny.

You said something about doing what grandafther did, what i meant was if grandfather did something and your still here in business he must have done something right or you d be gone long ago.It was not meant as an insult more a complement that you have survived this long , it aint easy for anyone trying to derive a full time living from farming.

 

[Henarar]

You said something about doing what grandafther did, what i meant was if grandfather did something and your still here in business he must have done something right or you d be gone long ago.

or not even started

 

[The Beef]

Right of Title.
If the owner lodges a RoT against his goods (or cattle) he may remove same, leaving you with empty yards and a battle recover your costs.

having their cattle in your yard could well be a disadvantage in any dispute, you can't sell them as they are not yours and I may be wrong but I don't think you can stop them collecting them as they belong to them and also you have to feed and take care of them as they are in your care

As I said earlier the unions need to earn their corn and make sure the contract is worth entering. If in doubt don't do it.

You said something about doing what grandafther did, what i meant was if grandfather did something and your still here in business he must have done something right or you d be gone long ago.

My grandfather did a lot right on a little grey Fergie - you moved on to your fastrac. Things move one.
Yes what he taught about stockmanship and caring for the land is invaluable but shouldn't we build on their foundation and go forward?

 

[The Beef]

or not even started

or not even born!

 

[Hilly]

A man buy cattle for the first time today on over draft or loan in 30 years time might be working on his own money, when he retires he will have a substantial asset to cash in, the contract finisher will have bugger all.

 

[Henarar]

As I said earlier the unions need to earn their corn and make sure the contract is worth entering.

well if you are relying on them then this conversation is over