RPA appeal

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
Right so 13 weeks after I submitted an appeal about my bps I have a reply, it’s all abit long winded but the gist is that they are recommending I take my case to a service review by the parliamentary and health service ombudsman !. Or I can have my appeal fee back !.

Has anyone ever been down this road before ?, looking for any advice really !.

Thanks
 

Jungle Bill

Member
Location
Angus
I’ve recovered big amounts from the RPA but not bps, and I don’t know much about English bps. You need to read the regulations concerned because they don’t and these cases always come down to the letter of the regulations. If they are not denying all responsibility it sounds like you have a chance. PM if you want to talk about it.
 

Formatted

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Sussex
If you aren't already using on, get a land agent. If you're a member the CLA or the TFA can be very helpful.
 
Location
East Mids
Right so 13 weeks after I submitted an appeal about my bps I have a reply, it’s all abit long winded but the gist is that they are recommending I take my case to a service review by the parliamentary and health service ombudsman !. Or I can have my appeal fee back !.

Has anyone ever been down this road before ?, looking for any advice really !.

Thanks
I think the difference is whether the RPA have made a wrong decision in interpreting the rules (which would go through the appeal route, with the fee required which is refunded if the appeal is upheld). The final stage of this is a Panel Review, they would then make a recommendation to the Secretary of State but he can over-rule their decision. The alternative route - which appears to be the one they are suggesting - is based on whether the RPA have provided the service expected of them (often linked to timescales, delays etc).
 

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
I think the difference is whether the RPA have made a wrong decision in interpreting the rules (which would go through the appeal route, with the fee required which is refunded if the appeal is upheld). The final stage of this is a Panel Review, they would then make a recommendation to the Secretary of State but he can over-rule their decision. The alternative route - which appears to be the one they are suggesting - is based on whether the RPA have provided the service expected of them (often linked to timescales, delays etc).
The service review is due to maladministration on there part, as they told me which code to use in 2015. I then used the same code in 2016 as they hadn’t sorted out my 2015 claim so knew no different, they then decided that I had used the wrong code both years and rejected my claim !.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
The service review is due to maladministration on there part, as they told me which code to use in 2015. I then used the same code in 2016 as they hadn’t sorted out my 2015 claim so knew no different, they then decided that I had used the wrong code both years and rejected my claim !.
On another thread, someone was claiming the rpa pay on time every time.
I take it that is not true.
 

Ben82

New Member
Right so 13 weeks after I submitted an appeal about my bps I have a reply, it’s all abit long winded but the gist is that they are recommending I take my case to a service review by the parliamentary and health service ombudsman !. Or I can have my appeal fee back !.

Has anyone ever been down this road before ?, looking for any advice really !.

Thanks
I have taken a client’s appeal to the Ombudsman (I’m an agent) and won. The grounds were maladministration of the client’s claim by the RPA following considerable complexities. The process took a significant amount of time and was not without its own complications. If the financial position is significant and you have a sound case, the process may be the way to progress matters.
 
Last edited:

alex04w

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
If the RPA are inviting you to go the the Ombudsman, then get in there. No government body invites 'spurious' claims to be taken forward.

Short of the Ombudsman report, an invite to refer a matter to him is as close to an apology as you will get.

Putting together a referral to the Ombudsman is not difficult if you are used to administration and writing. If not, then it will pay to use an agent.
 

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
If the RPA are inviting you to go the the Ombudsman, then get in there. No government body invites 'spurious' claims to be taken forward.

Short of the Ombudsman report, an invite to refer a matter to him is as close to an apology as you will get.

Putting together a referral to the Ombudsman is not difficult if you are used to administration and writing. If not, then it will pay to use an agent.
I’ve now been in touch with the person from appeals that sent the letter, a really nice chap and very helpful. A little more patience is required yet as apparently it’s not all over quite yet !.
 

cowcrazy

Member
Location
SE Cornwall
I have been through the appeals process, most stressful thing ever.
We to had a very helpful and nice chap. I submitted a stage one appeal letter and evidence as they advised, they gave my appeal and evidence in its entirety to the inspector I was appealing against. I then received amended CRF forms (although dated the same dates as the originals) some 7 months after my first inspection that covered off my appeal the inspector quoted my appeal word for word in some paragraphs and also said " I do not agree with his argument " etc.
The RPA denied for months that the inspector had my appeal, then when it was reviewed by the complaints team they admitted she had been given a copy. I could not believe this was fair as it biased my appeal in their favour. I complained and they said that they were happy that all correct procedures for my stage 1 appeal had been followed. They had used and quoted the EU Implementing regulations to penalise me so I thought they were worth a read. Clearly in there it said " all CRF forms must be finalised within 30 days of the on farm inspection " ( except if waiting on testing results for crops etc"
So I emailed the RPA case officer and asked if the original or amended CRF forms had been used to penalise me. He emailed back to say that only the amended forms had been used. Therefore they had used CRFs that breached the EU regulations.
I went to stage 2 appeal and the minister both ruling in the RPAs favour. I have now gone to the Ombudsman but am not holding my breath,
 

Surgery

Member
Location
Oxford
I have taken a client’s appeal to the Ombudsman (I’m an agent) and won. The grounds were maladministration of the client’s claim by the RPA following considerable complexities. The process took a significant amount of time and was not without its own complications. If the financial position is significant and you have a sound case, the process may be the way to progress matters.
Did they pay for your time thou ?
 

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
I have been through the appeals process, most stressful thing ever.
We to had a very helpful and nice chap. I submitted a stage one appeal letter and evidence as they advised, they gave my appeal and evidence in its entirety to the inspector I was appealing against. I then received amended CRF forms (although dated the same dates as the originals) some 7 months after my first inspection that covered off my appeal the inspector quoted my appeal word for word in some paragraphs and also said " I do not agree with his argument " etc.
The RPA denied for months that the inspector had my appeal, then when it was reviewed by the complaints team they admitted she had been given a copy. I could not believe this was fair as it biased my appeal in their favour. I complained and they said that they were happy that all correct procedures for my stage 1 appeal had been followed. They had used and quoted the EU Implementing regulations to penalise me so I thought they were worth a read. Clearly in there it said " all CRF forms must be finalised within 30 days of the on farm inspection " ( except if waiting on testing results for crops etc"
So I emailed the RPA case officer and asked if the original or amended CRF forms had been used to penalise me. He emailed back to say that only the amended forms had been used. Therefore they had used CRFs that breached the EU regulations.
I went to stage 2 appeal and the minister both ruling in the RPAs favour. I have now gone to the Ombudsman but am not holding my breath,
My case is quite different to yours.
I rang the RPA helpline in 2015 to find out if I was eligible to claim bps as I’d never claimed before. I explained to the chap what was on my land and that I’d never claimed SPS because it’s all in a woodland grant scheme. He asked me what the trees where to which I replied “poplar” and he said “yes that’s eligible claim as short rotation coppice”.
So I bought 15.49ha worth of entitlements though my agent who was doing my claim and had also rung the RPA to make sure I was eligible and was told same as me. My 2015 claim was submitted and I never got paid, I still hadn’t been paid by the time to submit for 2016 so claimed again with the same codes. It came to dec 1st 2016 I still hadn’t been paid for 2015 but was assured after many calls to RPA my claim was ok. Dec passed and well into January I got a call from RPA they where sorting my claim out and wanted more info which I supplied. A week later they rang back and said my claim was in eligible I had used the wrong code, I explained about speaking to the helpline and was told not to take any notice of info given out by the helpline as in my case the person maybe didn’t understand the rules.
So I asked
“what was the point in having a helpline ? after all I needed assistance with claiming. So if I can’t ring the helpline provided by the people that operate the scheme and then relie on the info given, who am I gonna call the ghostbusters” !.

This did not go down well and she put the phone down on me !.

Still waiting for the service review people to contact me but fear I’m in for a long wait, and even then it probably won’t do no good so I’ll be off to appeal and then more than likely the ombudsman !.

This whole exercise getting involved with the RPA has cost me thousands with buying entitlements paying agents, lost work because my cash flow crashed though not getting back what I paided out for entitlements and I’ve lost one of the fields I had.
Normal people would probably cut there losses and call it day with em, but NO though them I very nearly lost my business (I did have to pack up for six months and get a job) so I’m seeing it though to the end !.
 

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
Thought I’d update this !.

Still not been payed anything !.
Been too’ing and fro’ing with the RPA for a year and not really got any ware, it did look promising at one point but No.
So the current situation is that I have submitted to the PHSO, and they will be passing my case to one of there caseworkers in the next 4-6 weeks as there very busy.
I’m also waiting for a call from someone about setting up going to the Appeal panel.
 

Oscar

Member
Good luck ! Been reading about your plight for a couple years on here and did wonder the other day if it was sorted . Can t really say anything to help but hope you get a result soon either way rather than another 12 months plus .
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Good luck ! Been reading about your plight for a couple years on here and did wonder the other day if it was sorted . Can t really say anything to help but hope you get a result soon either way rather than another 12 months plus .
Its really not worth the bother claiming
 
I claimed that in 2016 BPS The RPA had deducted my greening payment as they figured out i hadn't met the required area for it...
This wasnt until about 10months later that i started the process.
I had the correct amount of area & proved it.
6 weeks later i received every penny they deducted some 11.5months earlier.
I now look very closely at the full claim statements since (Lesson Learnt)
2017s was fine & so is 2018's
RESULT !!!!
 

Hesston4860s

Member
Location
Nr Lincoln
Update !.

Got a letter from the PHSO on 13th Dec 18, saying my case would be allocated in the next 4 - 6 weeks ! So about the end of Jan ish !.

Got an email today and it’s now been allocated and the caseworker will be in touch “soon” !.

The Waiting continues.

As for the RPA, well I was supposed to get a call 2nd week of Jan 19.
Still waiting for that !, might ring them next week they must have forgotten about me !.

If this all falls apart has anyone got THE SUNS news desk number ?.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Update !.

Got a letter from the PHSO on 13th Dec 18, saying my case would be allocated in the next 4 - 6 weeks ! So about the end of Jan ish !.

Got an email today and it’s now been allocated and the caseworker will be in touch “soon” !.

The Waiting continues.

As for the RPA, well I was supposed to get a call 2nd week of Jan 19.
Still waiting for that !, might ring them next week they must have forgotten about me !.

If this all falls apart has anyone got THE SUNS news desk number ?.
No wonder farmers are on suicide watch
 

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Innovation and tech in action at Cereals LIVE


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