Rumenco, Harper Adams, and the filthy lucre.

[DaveGrohl]

Jobs for the boys.

It's not rocket science, if you place organic material in a warm, semi-liquid environment, bacteria grows and flourishes. One of the bi-products is gas (excuse me, I just had to pass wind and belch)

Dependent on the temp and ph in that environment depends on which family of bacteria prospers. Gaining a advantage on this 'topical' subject will no doubt attract a few industry awards, and maybe a bit of extra revenue, however being sustainable means exactly that. The key is long-term sustainability, in other words, if a solution is found, then it must be followed by the letter or it reverts to type.

If it requires constant intervention (in the form of a daily dose of an additive) then it is unsustainable.

That’s the thing about nature, it requires zero intervention from humans. Almost as if it would be better off without us……

 

[DaveGrohl]

I'm still trying to find the text defining the remits of levy boards but this is in the governance document for AHDB;

View attachment 1123954

This rather stymies AHDB in trying to influence parliament while being supposedly it's official point of advice.

So providing facts and context would be described as seeking to influence?

 

[thorpe]

If it requires constant intervention (in the form of a daily dose of an additive) then it is unsustainable.

That’s the thing about nature, it requires zero intervention from humans. Almost as if it would be better off without us……

 

[SilliamWhale]

There's a tendancy among some to disagree with the likes of Packham and Monbiot regardless of what they actually say, when some of what they say is right

Some of what they say is right. However their "solutions" are often extremist and idealistic rather than pragmatic but that doesn't sell column inches

 

[wanton dwarf]

George is right in principle, soy is the big driver and most of it goes to feed pigs and poultry.

If trees were the main profit source, they would allow reforestation in a cut and come again rotation.

From what he is saying, the cattle are used to graze down any regrowth.

If trees weren't the main profit driver they wouldn't log - just clear the land for agriculture use only.

If you have land freshly cleared of Trees would you

a) Do nothing
b) Wait 100 years for new trees to grow
c) Make money growing food
d) Make money selling the land


Option a) means you are really stupid
Option b) means you are both stupid & dead

Options c) & d) means you are alive & can procreate


Monbiot is an idiot

 

[Jackov Altraids]

So providing facts and context would be described as seeking to influence?

I don't know, but it could be.
It certainly would mean they would need permission from Defra before spending any money on research that might influence regulation such as making feeding supplements to cattle mandatory. . . . . . . . . .

 

[ollie989898]

Some of what they say is right. However their "solutions" are often extremist and idealistic rather than pragmatic but that doesn't sell column inches

What solutions has Moonbiotat actually ever made? He has none. To do that would require a heck of a lot more intellect than writing Guardianisms every week.

 

[Raider112]

Trees regrowing is a generational thing though, profits need to be had on an annual cycle. Also you know fine well how "most of it" has been abused by slippery people as an argument. Monbiot is about as slippery as they come.

The soya discussion has been done to death, and still the idea prevails that cattle are behind it, which you’ve just agreed isn’t true. More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed. You are correct about pigs and poultry but that is primarily because we’ve moved as far away from traditional systems as it’s possible to get. We need to return to mixed farming.

"More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed"
Is this a scientific fact? I know cattle don't use much but if this a fact it would be useful to throw at the vegans

 

[DaveGrohl]

"More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed"
Is this a scientific fact? I know cattle don't use much but if this a fact it would be useful to throw at the vegans

I take it you haven’t read the whole thread then? Post #79. Follow the branches and multiply as you go. There is another version of that tree with all of the %s neatly worked out and categorised somewhere. I don’t have it to hand soz, so you’ll have to take your socks off.

 

[DaveGrohl]

"More soya goes into soya milk than cattle feed"
Is this a scientific fact? I know cattle don't use much but if this a fact it would be useful to throw at the vegans

Here you go, OWiD is useful sometimes, most of the time it's virtually misinformation:

 

[Enry]

I have never come across such a mixed up, confusing thread full of all sorts random thoughts and ideas - Rumenco lady was on Countryfile talking about tie up with Wynnstay using a daffodil extract to reduce methane output - this was being fed to the cows on the farm belonging to a current or former Wynnstay director - I don't think it was stopping the rumen bugs dead or his cows would be dead! The sheep breeding link is surely a completely separate thing - looking at breeding sheep with lower methane output? Semex are doing same with cows.

Universities are very reliant on commercial companies for research ££ - someone told me how much Alltech spend at Harper Adams once, a significant amount. There seems to be some discussion re calculations but it is pretty much agreed that methane is a factor in global warming, so surely tech which will reduce it lessens the anti meat/milk lobby??

 

[DaveGrohl]

I have never come across such a mixed up, confusing thread full of all sorts random thoughts and ideas

it is pretty much agreed that methane is a factor in global warming, so surely tech which will reduce it lessens the anti meat/milk lobby??

This your first day on the forum then?

 

[SilliamWhale]

What solutions has Moonbiotat actually ever made? He has none. To do that would require a heck of a lot more intellect than writing Guardianisms every week.

I think the initial chatter of rewilding ie making a lot more of areas which really are unproductive agriculturally and where the landowner is interested in doing so and being paid to do so is still actually a good idea. I'd be potentiall happy to have the choice of rewilding some of my farm and being paid to do so.

He is also right that we do have some environmental problems in agriculture and recognising these is necessary.

I depart from him with his latest stuff as its too single minded. He has shoehorned in protein fermentation and vegan smallholders as the future of food production and its just daft. But he is doubling down on these ideas to fit his idealism.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I have never come across such a mixed up, confusing thread full of all sorts random thoughts and ideas - Rumenco lady was on Countryfile talking about tie up with Wynnstay using a daffodil extract to reduce methane output - this was being fed to the cows on the farm belonging to a current or former Wynnstay director - I don't think it was stopping the rumen bugs dead or his cows would be dead! The sheep breeding link is surely a completely separate thing - looking at breeding sheep with lower methane output? Semex are doing same with cows.

Universities are very reliant on commercial companies for research ££ - someone told me how much Alltech spend at Harper Adams once, a significant amount. There seems to be some discussion re calculations but it is pretty much agreed that methane is a factor in global warming, so surely tech which will reduce it lessens the anti meat/milk lobby??

If these daffodils prevent methane then where do the molecules that would have produced the methane recirculate? The carbon being converted into methane/ co2/ nitrous oxides or alternative carbon surely has to manifest itself somewhere else?

I still can't figure out how cows producing methane is magically worse than the GHG element of the inputs used to create that methane

 

[delilah]

it is pretty much agreed that methane is a factor in global warming, so surely tech which will reduce it lessens the anti meat/milk lobby??

Lets come up with a logo that we can put on UK produced food. It wont cost us anything, or cause us any inconvenience, as it's only going to be a recognition of what we do anyway. Something the public can relate to. A red tractor maybe.

It's called mission creep. Either you kill this methane bollox stone dead now, or you sign away any semblance of autonomy you still have left to the cartel. Your choice.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Here you go, OWiD is useful sometimes, most of the time it's virtually misinformation:


View attachment 1124044

Does that include hulls?
The hull is just under half the total weight.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Does that include hulls?
The hull is just under half the total weight.

There’s a gazillion webpages about this. Looking at some of them just sucks the life out of you. Some balanced ones can be found if you look hard enough though. Good luck.

 

[ollie989898]

Here you go, OWiD is useful sometimes, most of the time it's virtually misinformation:


View attachment 1124044

I'm glad you have put this up. Even if you deleted the red section of that graphic, what do we think is going to happen to the people growing soybeans? In reality their output will just be diverted into other end uses.

 

[ollie989898]

Does that include hulls?
The hull is just under half the total weight.

Again, if there was no livestock market, these would also find alternative end uses.

 

[DaveGrohl]

I'm glad you have put this up. Even if you deleted the red section of that graphic, what do we think is going to happen to the people growing soybeans? In reality their output will just be diverted into other end uses.

Landfill. So methane. So all of that animal edible material wasted for zero good reason. Who would pay for all that waste?

Most of it currently isn’t producing methane because virtually all of the byproduct (of oil production don’t forget) actually goes to chickens and pigs which aren’t ruminants. What are they going to be fed on instead? And again, it seems that no one seems to be aware that the world’s biggest soya producer is the US.

As indicated before, once you start getting into the soya rabbit hole you realise quickly how little critical thought actually goes into the soya-cows-bad theory. Could we feed less to chickens and pigs? Probably yes. Might wanna ask China what they think though as they are big consumers of pigs.