S690i and 770 demo

[Feldspar]

Out of interest what do you have the sensitivity of the loss monitors set at . It has been mentioned that they are normally set at 30 30 50 ? I have mine on 40 40 50 and can't get much past 55t/hr ( with a well callibrated mass flow sensor )

Have just spoken to APH and they have confirmed that the loss sensors do not adjust for output. That means if your sensitivity is set so that it goes from green to red with a 20% increase in losses, you are never going to be able to increase your output by 20% or more without it looking like you have unacceptable losses, even if your t/ha losses may be unchanged. This means in theory doing things exactly right that you need to detune the sensitivity as you go faster. By how much can only be determined by looking in the field. Roughly though, I would think you would want the sensitivity set so that it only goes from green to red with a 50% increase in losses or more. That way you can get up to 75 t/hr without it looking like it's unacceptable. That said, I think looking behind the combine is the way we'll do it.

 

[Feldspar]

Out of interest what do you have the sensitivity of the loss monitors set at . It has been mentioned that they are normally set at 30 30 50 ? I have mine on 40 40 50 and can't get much past 55t/hr ( with a well callibrated mass flow sensor )

Those are higher than ours. I know we reduced our rotor loss sensitivity from about 40 down to about 30.

 

[Lincsman]

Have just spoken to APH and they have confirmed that the loss sensors do not adjust for output. That means if your sensitivity is set so that it goes from green to red with a 20% increase in losses, you are never going to be able to increase your output by 20% or more without it looking like you have unacceptable losses, even if your t/ha losses may be unchanged. This means in theory doing things exactly right that you need to detune the sensitivity as you go faster. By how much can only be determined by looking in the field. Roughly though, I would think you would want the sensitivity set so that it only goes from green to red with a 50% increase in losses or more. That way you can get up to 75 t/hr without it looking like it's unacceptable. That said, I think looking behind the combine is the way we'll do it.

Losses are not a straight line on a graph, experienced drivers know a bit more speed shows a bit more losses, its when they suddenly shoot up that you have gone too fast.
The aim with combine it to do it right first time through, any returns are slowing you down, at least NH combines dont mix the returns into the straw again. Bottom sieve setting is: close sieve, put big handfull of grain on it and open until it falls through, top sieves 6mm more, (remember wetter grain is fatter and will need it to be opened more). ANY clean grain in the returns is BAD, open one of the sieves depending on where its come from, a very clean sample means its off the bottom one (open 1 mm), a trashy sample means not enough wind and / or top sieve too open/ and or too much thrashing. Some days/ crops just wont let you go as fast as other days, often as the damp starts to come down you can get another 1 MPH as the straw stays in one piece.

 

[Feldspar]

Losses are not a straight line on a graph, experienced drivers know a bit more speed shows a bit more losses, its when they suddenly shoot up that you have gone too fast.
The aim with combine it to do it right first time through, any returns are slowing you down, at least NH combines dont mix the returns into the straw again. Bottom sieve setting is: close sieve, put big handfull of grain on it and open until it falls through, top sieves 6mm more, (remember wetter grain is fatter and will need it to be opened more). ANY clean grain in the returns is BAD, open one of the sieves depending on where its come from, a very clean sample means its off the bottom one (open 1 mm), a trashy sample means not enough wind and / or top sieve too open/ and or too much thrashing. Some days/ crops just wont let you go as fast as other days, often as the damp starts to come down you can get another 1 MPH as the straw stays in one piece.

Thanks! You obviously speak from a lot of experience.

 

[Feldspar]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it...

Devise a formula that converts grains per handprint (mine is 9cm x 10cm) into combine losses. You can use the header width, yield, thousand grain weight and spreading width to determine this. Off you go!

This message will not self destruct in 10 seconds...

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

 

[Lincsman]

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 384032

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

Just to add to the mix, I accept more losses when its dry than when wet, no point in rushing to fill a shed with 20% wheat, the losses when dry more than compensate the drying costs. I also accept more to get a field finished so we can move in the morning.

 

[Feldspar]

Just to add to the mix, I accept more losses when its dry than when wet, no point in rushing to fill a shed with 20% wheat, the losses when dry more than compensate the drying costs. I also accept more to get a field finished so we can move in the morning.

What sort of changes in % loss would accept? 0.5% up to to what say when you need to press on? Particular situation dependent I imagine.

 

[Brisel]

That's a whole debate in itself, done in here before but not in this thread. My boss is happy with the cost/benefit of pressing on but won't tolerate green stripes behind my 35 foot header!

The Co-op under Christine Tacon worked on 2% losses for their Lexion 480s because it made business sense rather than buy extra capacity. The neighbours spent the rest of the year scoffing at their expense as they looked at the green trails behind but who had the last laugh??

 

[Lincsman]

What sort of changes in % loss would accept? 0.5% up to to what say when you need to press on? Particular situation dependent I imagine.

I dont really work on a percentage of crop, more like half of what you would drill in the swath width as a target, (why throw more away just because its yielding more?) but doubling it is not a problem, its a bit of a seat of pants decision made as you go... you wont find this in text books, only real life situations!

 

[JonL]

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 384032

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

I use something very similar. You just need to add a few bits to focus the mind. Convert the kg/ha to £/ha then work out how much per ha the combine costs to run at different speeds. In my situation an extra 2ac/hr covers the cost of an extra 0.3% losses. And that's just marginal costs running the combine ie fuel and labour never mind cart drivers, hired trailers, premiums, drier savings, early entry for OSR etc etc. I'll accept 0.5% losses every day of the week. If we can get them below that without costing output then great, but a quick harvest is a cheap harvest. For your info I run a CR9080 and haven't done less than 100 acres where we've combined all day ie 12 hours. Having changed combines this time from an older CR980 the biggest increase in output has come from not breaking down

 

[Brisel]

What's the cost of doubling losses from 0.5% to 1% if it knocks 3 days off your harvest? 0.5% of a 10 t/ha crop at £125/t spot is £6.25/ha in extra lost grain. Cost the combine at £250/hour, trailers at £35/hr each then you've got a store operator & elevators at over £100/hour (or are they at marginal cost?)...

What is a lost milling premium worth on a late harvested crop after rain has removed the Hagberg?
What drier savings can be made?
What is the value of having your harvesting gang back on ground work early? Extra contracting income?

All food for thought.

 

[JonL]

What's the cost of doubling losses from 0.5% to 1% if it knocks 3 days off your harvest? 0.5% of a 10 t/ha crop at £125/t spot is £6.25/ha in extra lost grain. Cost the combine at £250/hour, trailers at £35/hr each then you've got a store operator & elevators at over £100/hour (or are they at marginal cost?)...

What is a lost milling premium worth on a late harvested crop after rain has removed the Hagberg?
What drier savings can be made?
What is the value of having your harvesting gang back on ground work early? Extra contracting income?

All food for thought.

Indeed. Those 3 days could turn into a week or more lost cultivation/drilling time if the weather goes awry. 0.5t/ha lost OSR yield perfectly realistic, there's £160/ha. I reckon combine performance has more impact on the next crop than it does on the one its harvesting.

 

[Lincsman]

What's the cost of doubling losses from 0.5% to 1% if it knocks 3 days off your harvest? 0.5% of a 10 t/ha crop at £125/t spot is £6.25/ha in extra lost grain. Cost the combine at £250/hour, trailers at £35/hr each then you've got a store operator & elevators at over £100/hour (or are they at marginal cost?)...

What is a lost milling premium worth on a late harvested crop after rain has removed the Hagberg?
What drier savings can be made?
What is the value of having your harvesting gang back on ground work early? Extra contracting income?

All food for thought.

Might as well buy another combine if you get enough reasons

 

[Mr Charisma]

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 384032

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

I will sit down and work out your formular but each combine is different as to how it distributes it's residue , my JD 670 spreads all it's sieve residue through the chopper in so spreading sieve losses over chopping width , as I swath nearly all my cereal crops then the losses between the wheels are usually rotor losses ,,,,, unless it' cracked grains

 

[warksfarmer]

So you guys don't pay the staff when the combines stopped or finished? As in they are just there to cut corn?

The staff we use are either full time or come in from July to October so if the combines going quicker we are still paying them after its finished. The only cost you save on is fuel by optimising the combine because more a reaper hours better utilises the engines maximum fuel use. As hirers paying by the ac for the use, service and breakdowns then our price is fixed pretty much. Variable is only fuel because the driver as said is to be paid irrelevant of job he's doing.

For info so far this year a Lexion 770tt with 35ft header mainly swathing is using 17.5l/ha, includes road moves etc.

 

[warksfarmer]

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 384032

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

Swath width is 2m being pedantic and just so everybody is batting off the same wicket what would you accept when chopping in terms of grains per hand?

10 per hand in chopping all the way across the full header width is much more than 10 in the hand in the 2m wide swath of straw.

 

[Feldspar]

Swath width is 2m being pedantic and just so everybody is batting off the same wicket what would you accept when chopping in terms of grains per hand?

10 per hand in chopping all the way across the full header width is much more than 10 in the hand in the 2m wide swath of straw.

It accounts for chopping versus swathing. We're chopping so I put the swath width to equal the header width. If you're swathing then put in 2m instead. If your combine doesn't spread losses to the full width then put a value that is somewhere in between to equal the reduced width.

Here's it for dropping the straw and your threshold 10 grains under the hand:

 

[Clive]

Done. Just wrote a program to calculate grain losses in t/ha and as a % of yield from grains under the hand. Here's a screenshot:
View attachment 384032

PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

email it me please - I have aplastic slide rule thing from class but a spreadsheet on my phone would look more 21st century I guess !

 

[Feldspar]

email it me please - I have aplastic slide rule thing from class but a spreadsheet on my phone would look more 21st century I guess !

sent

 

[Clive]

sent

does that only work when swathing ? what about calculation when chopping and losses are being spread over header width ?