Saw bench identification

[Jsmith2211]

Hello,

I have an old sawbench that i would like to know some more about. I specifically need to know how the bed would have been driven, as all of the mechanisms for that are missing/disconected. I have attached a picture. I think it could be stenner and gunn of tiverton? Not sure. Looks similar to their number 2 but it doesnt have any of the same drive mechanisms.

.

 

[C.J]

@egbert

 

[Bury the Trash]

yes it does look like a Stenner i have seen ...but im no expert and my memory is not that good...

 

[Jsmith2211]

yes it does look like a Stenner i have seen ...but im no expert and my memory is not that good...

Would you happen to remember how the drive worked on that? Does mine look like it is missing a large chunk of machinery from around the main drive pulley? I have one axle with a cog on it that needs to go somewhere but no other pulleys or gears or anything

 

[Kidds]

Have you asked the same question on arbtalk?
They might know.

Milling Forum

Discuss saw milling processes here

arbtalk.co.uk

 

[Exfarmer]

I think it is quite likely, only the saw was driven and the bed was turned by hand by the shaft sticking out the side with a large handle. This gave the operator the flexibility of adjusting the speed to the sound of the saw.
the wood ran on rollers so quite heavy loads could be fed in with little effort using a rack and pinion

 

[startinghandle]

I would suggest finding a similar setup
in working order to compare
I know there are Lawley Brothers from
Churchstoke who do demonstrations at vintage rallies but I think the two brothers have passed on but the setup is still in the family
Also I can remember reading an article
in a book I bought at a rally where the automatic feed was broken but it was used for many years where the timber was fed through by manually turning
handle

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Saw-blade belt driven and the table wound by hand. I've seen them with wooden rollers. Some blades were tipped with changable tips shaped like a crescent moon, a Stenner special and much coveted. I'd like to see some close-ups. My dads sawmill had moved on from this type of machinery by the 1960's with a rack-saw but sometimes his partner went out and bought old tables and put them back to working order. Both long gone so I only go from memory! I was only a lad and involved in the peripheries of the yard.
The main frame will be made of Pitch-pine.

SS

 

[Bury the Trash]

Would you happen to remember how the drive worked on that? Does mine look like it is missing a large chunk of machinery from around the main drive pulley? I have one axle with a cog on it that needs to go somewhere but no other pulleys or gears or anything

No I'm sorry I dont recalbut the bench I'm thinking of is still there I'm not sure if it's used nowadays tho, as we used to here it ' singing away' of a weekday, the mills is undef new ownership and I dont know them very well but if I get the chance I will ask the retired local chap who used to work with it.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

From memory there is a long toothed strip of metal on one under-side of the table. This would be the main timber side. This in turn is driven by a cog and handle quite near the front of the saw-blade, its that simple. No mechanics as this would be dangerous. The Sawyer would 'feel' the timber being cut as he/she wound the handle. Ours had an electrical feed with a resistor that the Sawyer twiddled to increase or decrease the feed speed.
From what I can see in yout picture the Riving knife isn't in view. I hope it is there as it stops horrors! Remember the blade is going up at the back and the riving knife is there to prevent any movement of the timber behind the blade and pinching it. The result is spectacular and very nasty if there is a pinch. Beware, particularly on shorter sticks.

Are there any 'dogs' to dog-on a round stick? These would be fitted like a lift-off gate hinge on the side of your table and there should be three or four positions down the table to fit them. Usual way was to dog-on your stick. Take off a small flitch after sussing out the how I'm going to cut this & in which direction. Turn the timber so it lays flat in this flitch and re-dog then cut your main pieces.

If you're within easy reach of Kent there's currently a market for 6" thich Oak slabwood no shorter than 12'. If you have anything with a slight curve this would be welcome. Crooks & similar too. Just a thought if you get keen! Artics welcome but not curtain-siders as the crane can't unload easily.

SS

 

[renewablejohn]

If your anywhere near Lancashire you can have a look at my rack saw. As others have said under the bed should be a metal rack attached to the timber deck then a cog engages into that rack which will be attached to the metal spike you can see sticking out. What your missing is the handle which you turn by hand which allows you to feed the log into the saw blade with finesse and not killing the tractor revs.
Please dont use this saw as it is a death trap as the belt pulleys have been installed on the wrong side. If the belt lets go the operator is in direct line of the belt.
Edit I stand corrected have just noticed the handle is on the other side so not in direct line of the belts.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Thanks all for the replies. I have the handles and all working fine, but i was under the impression that it was supposed to have a drive that ran off of the belt that the blade runs off of. I have the axle sitting in the shed, but maybe it is just for another handle. There is another thing about this saw also, and that is that it never seems to have much power. Whenever you try to saw a nice big log on it the belt slips off, no matter how much we tighten it!

Saw-blade belt driven and the table wound by hand. I've seen them with wooden rollers. Some blades were tipped with changable tips shaped like a crescent moon, a Stenner special and much coveted. I'd like to see some close-ups. My dads sawmill had moved on from this type of machinery by the 1960's with a rack-saw but sometimes his partner went out and bought old tables and put them back to working order. Both long gone so I only go from memory! I was only a lad and involved in the peripheries of the yard.
The main frame will be made of Pitch-pine.

SS

It has the changeable tips in the saw blade, had to replace them not long back. Does this confirm it as a stenner?

From memory there is a long toothed strip of metal on one under-side of the table. This would be the main timber side. This in turn is driven by a cog and handle quite near the front of the saw-blade, its that simple. No mechanics as this would be dangerous. The Sawyer would 'feel' the timber being cut as he/she wound the handle. Ours had an electrical feed with a resistor that the Sawyer twiddled to increase or decrease the feed speed.
From what I can see in yout picture the Riving knife isn't in view. I hope it is there as it stops horrors! Remember the blade is going up at the back and the riving knife is there to prevent any movement of the timber behind the blade and pinching it. The result is spectacular and very nasty if there is a pinch. Beware, particularly on shorter sticks.

Are there any 'dogs' to dog-on a round stick? These would be fitted like a lift-off gate hinge on the side of your table and there should be three or four positions down the table to fit them. Usual way was to dog-on your stick. Take off a small flitch after sussing out the how I'm going to cut this & in which direction. Turn the timber so it lays flat in this flitch and re-dog then cut your main pieces.

If you're within easy reach of Kent there's currently a market for 6" thich Oak slabwood no shorter than 12'. If you have anything with a slight curve this would be welcome. Crooks & similar too. Just a thought if you get keen! Artics welcome but not curtain-siders as the crane can't unload easily.

SS

I dont quite follow what you mean by "dogs" and "dog on a stick". We are at the bottom end of somerset, so kent is a bit of a treck and to be honest we are using more wood than we can saw at the moment. If i do have some spare ill give you a shout.

If your anywhere near Lancashire you can have a look at my rack saw. As others have said under the bed should be a metal rack attached to the timber deck then a cog engages into that rack which will be attached to the metal spike you can see sticking out. What your missing is the handle which you turn by hand which allows you to feed the log into the saw blade with finesse and not killing the tractor revs.
Please dont use this saw as it is a death trap as the belt pulleys have been installed on the wrong side. If the belt lets go the operator is in direct line of the belt.
Edit I stand corrected have just noticed the handle is on the other side so not in direct line of the belts.

The handles are on the other side of the machine, and we have used it before. I just want to know a little bit more about the saw, and this drive mechanism. Sorry i should have mentioned that the handles are on the other side!

 

[suffolksmallholder]

@Jsmith2211 If you put a round stick on the table and it wants to roll one way or the other do you have anything to stop the rolling. Picture something that looks like a very large fish hook made of 1/2" thick steel that can be attached to the table and the pointy/spiked end banged into the round to hold it in place.....That to me is a 'dog'.
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/23517.1 Shows a Stenner 48 bandsaw but look at the table where there are x3 dogs waiting for their stick.

In the pic the winding handle is foreground. Plus you can see the crescent shaped tips in the blade.


SS

 

[suffolksmallholder]

I'd put a £5 on it being a Stenner & Gunn circular saw bench but which one I wouldn't like to say. Perhaps a No2?
FYI;http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=3071

SS

 

[suffolksmallholder]

My Guilliet 48" bandsaw ended its life as a film prop in a Midsomer murders film set.........

SS

 

[Jsmith2211]

@Jsmith2211 If you put a round stick on the table and it wants to roll one way or the other do you have anything to stop the rolling. Picture something that looks like a very large fish hook made of 1/2" thick steel that can be attached to the table and the pointy/spiked end banged into the round to hold it in place.....That to me is a 'dog'.
http://www.nationaltrustcollections.org.uk/object/23517.1 Shows a Stenner 48 bandsaw but look at the table where there are x3 dogs waiting for their stick.

In the pic the winding handle is foreground. Plus you can see the crescent shaped tips in the blade.


SS

So you mean the bits on the table? No we don't have them. We have little triangular bits of wood that we bash in with a hammer on both sides. Works well enough... That looks like a nice saw.

 

[sahara]

Hi

Untill quite recently we used to have a big Stenner & Gunn rack saw bench, I don't recall what number it was.

The guy who we sold it to has done all the quite considerable repairs that were needed and now takes it on the vintage circuit, I saw it at the WSR gala in August of last year.

You are quite right as on ours both the saw blade and the table were powered, in your picture your belt is running on one pulley of a double pulley set up.

On ours, the belt would run on the outer pulley, through the U shaped guide, and when you wanted to cut, the operator (standing on a platform next to the blade) would pull a handle and the belt would slide onto the inner pulley and drive the saw.
Another handle would engage the table drive allowing the operator to move the table with the piece of wood on it onto the blade, and reverse it if necessary.
In and around the control area there was a whole gearbox essentially of pulleys and belts that could be used to change the speeds of the blade and the table.
Originally ours was driven by a steam engine, and the latterly a Field Marshall, I was told by my great uncle who's baby the saw was, that you were supposed to park the drive source where you have taken the picture from, because then the cut piece of timber was removed and there was no risk of if fouling the blade as the cutting table was returned back to the start position. However our cutting site dictated that we parked the Marshall where you have the MF.
The drive pulley from a Steam Engine or that of a Marshall would be bigger, so would it have more torque and therefore the belt not slip and come off?
My great uncle also told me that in his younger/braver days when they had cut up all the big sticks they would wind the table forward and then stand in the middle of the bench frame next to the blade and then cut all the small stuff up for firewood pushing the bits of wood onto the blade with his hands!!! Must be bonkers!

Googling Stenner & Gunn Saw bench gives you quite a lot of pictures to look at, some have the hand winding handle being used in them.

Hope the above helps.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Here are some more pictures.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Hi

Untill quite recently we used to have a big Stenner & Gunn rack saw bench, I don't recall what number it was.

The guy who we sold it to has done all the quite considerable repairs that were needed and now takes it on the vintage circuit, I saw it at the WSR gala in August of last year.

You are quite right as on ours both the saw blade and the table were powered, in your picture your belt is running on one pulley of a double pulley set up.

On ours, the belt would run on the outer one, through the U shaped guide, and when you wanted to cut, the operator (standing on a platform next to the blade) would pull a handle and the belt would slide onto the inner pulley and drive the saw.
Another handle would engage the table drive allowing the operator to move the table with piece of wood on it onto the blade, and reverse it if necessary.
In and around the control area there was a whole gearbox essentially of pulleys and belts that could be used to change the speeds of the blade and the table.
Originally ours was driven by a steam engine, and latterly a Field Marshall I was told by my great uncle who's baby it was that you were supposed to drive from where you have taken the picture from, because then the cut piece of timber was removed and there was no rick of if fouling the blade. However our cutting site dictated that we parked the Marshall where you have the MF.
The drive pulley from a steam engine of a Marshall would be bigger so would it have more torque and therefore not come off?
My great uncle also told me that in his younger/braver days when they had cut up all the big sticks they would wind the table forward and then stand in the middle of the bench frame next to the blade and then cut all the small stuff up for firewood pushing the bits of wood onto the blade with his hands!!! Must be bonkers!

Googling Stenner & Gunn Saw bench gives you quite a lot of pictures to look at, some have the hand winding handle being used in them.

Hope the above helps.

Do you have any pictures of the drive mechanism? Does it look like there are a lot of bits missing from the pictures? I dont like to go anywhere near that blade when it is running, there is a lot of energy in it and would easily take an arm off. i did see two lever type things running underneath the table and to the other side, one of them had a u shaped bit that looked like a belt guide on it.

 

[sahara]

I will have a look for some pictures when I get back to the farm.
I know that there were various size machines made, I'm told that ours was the biggest one with all the bell & whistles of the day, so I can only assume that included the variable speed controls.
Yours does not look (to me) as if any thing is missing. the lever controls running under the machine are possibly to allow you to control the machine, i.e. engage the blade drive by moving the belt guide from the safe side of the bench where the table handle is.